Thanks. I've been enjoying it for 42 years
Vintage Minnesota fats tables
- Thread starter His Boy Elroy
- Start date
Enjoy that table! It has historic significance in your family and no one knows it like you!
It has a look of "competition style" and the rail counters are cool. I have a Diamond pro and don't have rail counters
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World Pool Association table specs for cushions... The ball must travel 4 to 4/12 table lengths minimum.
You stated in other posts your cushions were "hard" and I presumed that you were saying they were OK.
Your guess is right. The sides are 3/4 inch fibre wood covered with laminate about as thick as the cardboard on a cereal box. If your saying a player's table has something better than that, I don't doubt it. I'm having serious problems with the way ball bounces off the cushion these days and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the cushion. I think it has more to do with the weakness of the infrastructure supporting the cushion
Well; the presence of laminate means nothing other than there was little expense paid to decoration. So I guess you're saying fibre wood is not good and maybe only 3/4 inch of it on the side is not good. Hey; maybe You've just identified the problem. I've learned something. Thanks
I really wish I never started this, but then it just snowballed and there was no way out. I perceived that in most posters mind's they equated Fats tables with department store tables. When I stated that we paid $600 in 1971 - the equivalent of $3500 today, I perceived they thought it was a department store quality table and we were duped into paying 2 1/2 times what it was really worth. When I staunchly insisted it was "quality," it was perceived by some I was insisting that this table bought 42 years ago was a real "players" table
There's a whole lot of distance between a department store table and a "players" table. I'm not insisting I have a "players" table. I am insisting there's a big distance between a department store table and my table. that's all. As I said, I wish I had never started this. At this point it's getting kinda embarrassing to George Jetsons only son.
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About 6 months ago I bought Aramith super pro balls. It took me about 3 days before I was able to pocket the first one. It totally wrecked my stroke for 3 days. I knew I needed better balls and eventually they improved my game, but it was horrible at first. I put the balls I'd been using for 42 years in the aramith box and put them in a drawer. So I'm playing with the Aramiths and I swear I could hear 16 different sounds of sobs coming from that drawer. It was like they were saying, "We know we can't keep up with your game these days! We know you need better balls; but we've been friends for 42 years! Couldn't you have at least found us a good pool table and a player who will give us exercise every day instead of putting us in a damn box?"Enjoy that table! It has historic significance in your family and no one knows it like you!
It has a look of "competition style" and the rail counters are cool. I have a Diamond pro and don't have rail counters
I'd love a diamond; but if that was the situation when I changed balls, I don't know what would happen if I changed tables.
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A poster over in the mechanics forum cleared this up today. He said in the eighties, there was a change in the type of material used in cushions. When they became worn out and I presume when they become worn out still today, they become hard. Previous to this change the opposite was true. Softness was an indication of them being worn out. My table is from1971. The cushions are still hard.That means they're still good. The problem lies the infrastructure supporting the cushions. I think I'll get a pro out here to look at things.
Thanks for the info about the 4 table lengths. The worst of my six cushion bounces comes from one of
the short rails. I 'm sure I'm not going to make it 4 rails.
Thanks. I think I'll find a mechanic to come out to the house. I'm clueless as to what to do.
Table
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The side rails are one long piece with no side pocket casting. unbolt and flip the rail over, is the body of rail fibre board? What type of female threaded insert is in the wood for fastening the rail bolts that come up thru the slate?
Snap some pictures of the underside of the rails, the rails unbolt easily.
Just be careful with the long one piece rail, the wood is weakest at the side pocket and can break at that point if dropped or lifted from the far end/ends.
You might have to take one end rail off or loose to get the side rail off depending on how the installer attached the corner caps on the ends of the rails.
Do you mention the cushions are soft/mushie?
If the cushions are good and firm there might be a few things to stop the vibrating and rattling.
Rob.M
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The side rails are one long piece with no side pocket casting. unbolt and flip the rail over, is the body of rail fibre board? What type of female threaded insert is in the wood for fastening the rail bolts that come up thru the slate?
Snap some pictures of the underside of the rails, the rails unbolt easily.
Just be careful with the long one piece rail, the wood is weakest at the side pocket and can break at that point if dropped or lifted from the far end/ends.
You might have to take one end rail off or loose to get the side rail off depending on how the installer attached the corner caps on the ends of the rails.
Do you mention the cushions are soft/mushie?
If the cushions are good and firm there might be a few things to stop the vibrating and rattling.
Rob.M
For the record (so it will come up in future search results)
MN Fats tables were at one time made by the Pre-Vue company (of Manitoba) but they were also produced by a company called ARMAC who owned the ROZEL company. (of Chicago)
Both ARMAC and ROZEL sold the tables. ( FWIW so did AE SCHMIDT )
According to the Chicago Tribune, Rozel converted all the MN Fats stores into VIDEO KING stores in 1980.
MN Fats tables were at one time made by the Pre-Vue company (of Manitoba) but they were also produced by a company called ARMAC who owned the ROZEL company. (of Chicago)
Both ARMAC and ROZEL sold the tables. ( FWIW so did AE SCHMIDT )
According to the Chicago Tribune, Rozel converted all the MN Fats stores into VIDEO KING stores in 1980.
Thanks for the advise. The body of rail is definately fiber board. I can tell that just by looking up. When we last recovered it 7 years ago we were having the same problems. My dad and I looked at everything, but couldn't come up with a solution. I think this time before I take anything apart I'm just going to get a pro in here.
Thanks Mr. Bond. You certainly do know your stuff. I'm beginning to think this is a Chicago thing with Rozel. Rozel was based in Chicago. Montgomery Wards, the store that was selling the Gold Cup in 1964 for $950 in that advertisement you provided was headquartered and had it's largest presence of stores in Chicago. Minnesota Fats was to give an exhibition on that table at Ward's Evergreen location. Not many towns have an adjective as their name. I assume it was the near southern suburb of Chicago - Evergreen Park being referred to. We bought the table at a Minnesoat Fats dealership in another near Chicago suburb. Maybe these Rozel tables were only sold in and around Chicago. I've learned Rozel sold 4 tables; the gold cup, the hustler, the pacer, and the trophy. I'm certain I don't own the gold cup. I probably own one of the other 3. Again; thanks for the fine detective work!
The ball rolls true on this table. It's only gone off level about 5 times in 42 years. On each of those occasions I've gone down there with a wrench and had it back to level in less than a half hour. Never theless, the poor cushion play is a HUGE issue. I don't want to have to dump the whole table. Is there any way I could have a whole new set of rails installed with finer wood?
It would be cheaper to find a used Gold Crown.
By the time you have a pro come in to do it, you could buy a much nicer used table, and the problem will be solved.
Listen to Rexus buy a used Gold Crown, move it and have a quality mechanic put it together with Simonis 860 replace all cushions if need be, add new pocket liners. You would be golden for probably under 2 grand for sure under 2500 play on it for 5 years and get half your money back. Cheap and totally pool room quality.
Any money you spend on that fats table will not offer the return you will get for the GC. However there are people who make rails and could convert that table to a hardwood rail table. I do not think you save any money and the frame of the table will probably be comparable in quality yo what the rails are which we know is not hardwood.
A GC has pretty large solid poplar frame that is very stiff and can support the weight of the slate and rails so a rigid system is formed. Even if you put hardwood rails on your 42 year old able if there is any give in he frame anytime the table is bumped or you get up on it for a shot you might find some give in the frame, Not so good but it is a family heirloom.
My suggestion start watching Craigslist for a Gold Crown. Buy one, give the Fats table to a less discerning family member to play on including the old balls. Put your new balls on your new to you GC perhaps with fress rubber with blue or green felt. Play on quality equipment for next 42 years. Good rolls to you Elroy.
FYI - I think you would have got a better (kinder) response from Real King Cobra if you would have posted your question in the Ask A Mechanic section. When asking for free advice from pro (RKC is real pro) then you should do the simple things they ask especially when the cost you is negligible.
If it will make him enjoy pool -- get the rails fixed. If you play on it for another ten years who cares if you lose a little money on table?
Gold Crowns and Diamonds are great but there's something that is even better -- having a smile on your face while you are shooting pool.
If I had a table that I played pool on with my father (or some other sentimental attachment), I would probably have a hard time getting rid of it.
You don't have to play on a perfect table to have a perfectly good time.
Gold Crowns and Diamonds are great but there's something that is even better -- having a smile on your face while you are shooting pool.
If I had a table that I played pool on with my father (or some other sentimental attachment), I would probably have a hard time getting rid of it.
You don't have to play on a perfect table to have a perfectly good time.