What happened to Accu Stats....

[JustPlay]

First off saying, I realize that it is a semi-expensive production to have quality camera work, editing and commentary booths, and a crew to run accustats video productions and to make a profit at the end of the day. I also understand that Pat Flemming wants to have the best videos to be produced so we as pool players, fans and alike can view this great game at its highest level. However, with that being said, I remember when they had just one camera and no commentary for the matches and all you could here was the players hitting the balls, background noise (people cheering, talking etc..) and the balls going into the pockets. There are some ones with just one camera and no commentary and example is 1989 US Open Straight Pool, Mike Sigel runs 150 out on Jim Rempe and you could here Sigel calling his shots, making comments and the sound of the balls going into the pocket and no person talking about every single shot, just watching pool being played at its best.

I know, the funds are there at the US 9-ball Open and Derby City Classic for Pat to set up his elaborate production, but The Big Apple 9-ball challenge, Last years 10-ball Challenge, New Jersey Straight pool championships, Glass City Open in Toledo and the Carolina's Open had some absolute fantastic matches and these were big events that if you weren't there, you missed all the excitment in addition you get to see players you don't see on a regular basis (bryant, frost, etc..). I called Accu Stats on several occasions and had asked them about these big venue events and there comments were, that they would have like to video these events, but the revenue wasn' there. That understandable, However, I could not understand why they couldn't just set up a camera and table with no bells and whisles, I defintley would buy a few of those tapes from each event.

So give Pat a call (as Bill Incardona would say at the end of the match) at 1.800.828.0397 and express your support for this great asset to Pool. I personally feel that if Accu-Stats were not around, when they were started back in the eighties, the fan base would be smaller today as a result. But because of Accu Stats, Pool has become bigger and better and has help speed up the process for rank amatures to become proficent players in a short period of time. What do you folks on this forum think.

 

[macguy]

First off saying, I realize that it is a semi-expensive production to have quality camera work, editing and commentary booths, and a crew to run accustats video productions and to make a profit at the end of the day. I also understand that Pat Flemming wants to have the best videos to be produced so we as pool players, fans and alike can view this great game at its highest level. However, with that being said, I remember when they had just one camera and no commentary for the matches and all you could here was the players hitting the balls, background noise (people cheering, talking etc..) and the balls going into the pockets. There are some ones with just one camera and no commentary and example is 1989 US Open Straight Pool, Mike Sigel runs 150 out on Jim Rempe and you could here Sigel calling his shots, making comments and the sound of the balls going into the pocket and no person talking about every single shot, just watching pool being played at its best.

I know, the funds are there at the US 9-ball Open and Derby City Classic for Pat to set up his elaborate production, but The Big Apple 9-ball challenge, Last years 10-ball Challenge, New Jersey Straight pool championships, Glass City Open in Toledo and the Carolina's Open had some absolute fantastic matches and these were big events that if you weren't there, you missed all the excitment in addition you get to see players you don't see on a regular basis (bryant, frost, etc..). I called Accu Stats on several occasions and had asked them about these big venue events and there comments were, that they would have like to video these events, but the revenue wasn' there. That understandable, However, I could not understand why they couldn't just set up a camera and table with no bells and whisles, I defintley would buy a few of those tapes from each event.

So give Pat a call (as Bill Incardona would say at the end of the match) at 1.800.828.0397 and express your support for this great asset to Pool. I personally feel that if Accu-Stats were not around, when they were started back in the eighties, the fan base would be smaller today as a result. But because of Accu Stats, Pool has become bigger and better and has help speed up the process for rank amatures to become proficent players in a short period of time. What do you folks on this forum think.

Most of the matches they tape are not really sellable. Most people don't want to see blowouts or players they never heard of play, they just don't sell. Getting a good match on tape is like panning for gold. Since pool is not a timely sport, he has a large enough archive of past matches to continue to sell almost indefinitely and he only needs to add a few as time goes by to stay current with newer players. When he had nothing I guess he had to tape as much as he could. It is possible he may be for the first time making a little money with the tapes, since he seems to be cutting his expensive. Those tapes he has should always have a market even if he never tapes another tournament. If I were him, my big fear, although it is everyone else's wish, would be too many televised matches or the Internet broadcasts. They could make his business extinct over night.

 

[EL'nino]

Most of the matches they tape are not really sellable. Most people don't want to see blowouts or players they never heard of play, they just don't sell. Getting a good match on tape is like panning for gold. Since pool is not a timely sport, he has a large enough archive of past matches to continue to sell almost indefinitely and he only needs to add a few as time goes by to stay current with newer players. When he had nothing I guess he had to tape as much as he could. It is possible he may be for the first time making a little money with the tapes, since he seems to be cutting his expensive. Those tapes he has should always have a market even if he never tapes another tournament. If I were him, my big fear, although it is everyone else's wish, would be too many televised matches or the Internet broadcasts. They could make his business extinct over night.

If he wants his business to be extinct overnight all he has to do is keep this Jimmy Wych guy in the booth (BRING BACK GRADY)

 

[JustPlay]

If he wants his business to be extinct overnight all he has to do is keep this Jimmy Wych guy in the booth (BRING BACK GRADY)

El, No dout about it! Grady, Danny D., Incardona and even Nick Varner are great to have in the booth. Wych comes off a little too happy and on the border of being phony.

 

[JustPlay]

Most of the matches they tape are not really sellable. Most people don't want to see blowouts or players they never heard of play, they just don't sell. Getting a good match on tape is like panning for gold. Since pool is not a timely sport, he has a large enough archive of past matches to continue to sell almost indefinitely and he only needs to add a few as time goes by to stay current with newer players. When he had nothing I guess he had to tape as much as he could. It is possible he may be for the first time making a little money with the tapes, since he seems to be cutting his expensive. Those tapes he has should always have a market even if he never tapes another tournament. If I were him, my big fear, although it is everyone else's wish, would be too many televised matches or the Internet broadcasts. They could make his business extinct over night.

Macguy,

You are right, there are a quite a few matches, nobody wants to see. I do disagree with a good match on tape is planning for gold. Archer v. jones, Frost v. Bryant are excellent matches. I am not saying A.S. should tape every match just follow the brackets on the paring charts to see if two up and comming players go head to head or two top pros go head to head. Also, As I look at the list of taped matches from accu stats, They seem to tape an over abundence of matches at the US open and DCC. Pat could promote if a couple of players playing in the tournament want to be taped, they could pay x-amount of dollars in advance for the tape. With the exception of major tournaments the smaller tournaments, just tape 2-3 matches. However I guess Pat has probably thought of all of this and just made a business decision to do only 2 tournaments a year. I just think that Pat Flemming's Accu stats is the most valuable to pool over the last 20 years.

 

[yobagua]

It is simply time for other small companies to start up regionally. I know a bunch of guys with their one camera setup has started up here and there. We cant expect Pat to travel all over the country with his equipment. He used to do Reno and that was such a rough trip and not that profitable I expect. If we have one company out West, in the South, the Midwest, it would be great. I would be happy to buy tapes with just one camera sans commentary.

 

[cardiac kid]

Hi yobagua,

About your comments on Pat and Accu-stats. Unless I was dreaming (a very real possibility), Pat was at this years June Reno Open with his full set up. I bought a couple of DCC one pocket DVD's for a local player. One of the things I look forward to at that event, is having Pat tape a few of the great matches. His service to the game of pocket billiards seems to be undervalued and unrecognized. Most players I speak with wouldn't pay twenty bucks for a re-play of a great match. Neither would they pay the same twenty bucks to watch the match live! It's a sad commentary on our game.

Regarding the "commentators". I'm so sick of the joy expoused by the current group of TV personalities as a professional player makes a shot an APA 3 could make 10 of 10. The applause from the "knowledgeable" crowd is just a sickening! What do you think of Danny DiLiberto as a voiceover?

 

[macguy]

Macguy,

You are right, there are a quite a few matches, nobody wants to see. I do disagree with a good match on tape is planning for gold. Archer v. jones, Frost v. Bryant are excellent matches. I am not saying A.S. should tape every match just follow the brackets on the paring charts to see if two up and comming players go head to head or two top pros go head to head. Also, As I look at the list of taped matches from accu stats, They seem to tape an over abundence of matches at the US open and DCC. Pat could promote if a couple of players playing in the tournament want to be taped, they could pay x-amount of dollars in advance for the tape. With the exception of major tournaments the smaller tournaments, just tape 2-3 matches. However I guess Pat has probably thought of all of this and just made a business decision to do only 2 tournaments a year. I just think that Pat Flemming's Accu stats is the most valuable to pool over the last 20 years.

What I meant was that there can be a match that even though there are quality players it doesn't guarantee a great match people will pay for. Every match that is taped is competing against other matches he has for market share. Certain matches that were known to be good will sell. A blow out that ends in 25 minutes is almost un-sellable even if one of the players put together racks. Remember, these tapes are not cheap. There is a perception of value there and the feeling one must get their moneys worth. Sad to say, quantity and not necessarily quality, that is just the way it is. There is something about buying say a one pocket match that runs 2 to 3 hours and buying a 9 ball match that took 25 minutes. To sell the 9 ball match he has to put two matches on the tape no matter how good the match was. My use of the term "Panning for gold" was pretty accurate. Some matches are real sellers and some you can't even give away, and you never know. Since he can't tape every match you are just gambling. I am sure there are a lot matches that take place when he is there not on the camera table, he wishes he had gotten on tape.

 

[cardiac kid]

Well said macguy!

 

[EL'nino]

El, No dout about it! Grady, Danny D., Incardona and even Nick Varner are great to have in the booth. Wych comes off a little too happy and on the border of being phony.

Wych adds nothing but WPBA type commentary....Grady on the other hand would draw with the aid of the telestrator 2 or 3 different ways to get on a tough ball, how to kick 2 or 3 rails to hit a ball (AND GET SAFE). Now we hear " this nine to take a three nil lead". Pat used to have the best product in pool and now it's just the same crap you can see on ESPN with Mitch Lawrance. Boy do I miss Accu-Stats

 

[sjm]

I personally feel that if Accu-Stats were not around, when they were started back in the eighties, the fan base would be smaller today as a result. But because of Accu Stats, Pool has become bigger and better and has help speed up the process for rank amatures to become proficent players in a short period of time. What do you folks on this forum think.

During 2003 BCAHOF nominations, I wrote to Ducoff:

I think Pat Fleming deserves BCA Hall of Fame consideration for meritorious service to the sport of billiards. As the founder of Accu-stats, Pat's efforts have enabled countless fans of the game to enjoy competitions they were unable to attend and have also allowed teachers and students of the game to study and learn from many of the great matches of the last twenty years. Pat was a true visionary. Though we'll never get to see much footage of Greenleaf, Hoppe, Mosconi, Crane or Ponzi, Pat Fleming has seen to it that this and future generations will get to see and learn from footage of Reyes, Strickland, Bustamante, Archer and Hall, an important contribution to the study and appreciation of the game of pool.

The size of Pat's contribution to the game often gets overlooked, as one or two of us noted in Blud's thread about establioshing a new hall of fame.

 

[kyle]

How can anyone complain about Jim Wych's commentating without mentioning Jerry Forsythe first.

 

[EL'nino]

How can anyone complain about Jim Wych's commentating without mentioning Jerry Forsythe first.

You couldn't be more right... and just think, this is the way Accu-Stats is going.

 

[know-nada]

IMO it is about time for the promoters to more professionally promote their events. Accu-Stats has played an enormous role in the promotion of the Derby City Classic and The US Open - both are great events that more than twice as many people know about thanks to A-S. The average enthusiast is able to order tapes world-wide and revisit these events and get a feel for what they are like and then talk about them to their friends - how strong is that if you are a promoter hoping to have more people at your next tournament. I have no idea what Pat's arrangements are or how his business is set up - but the real winners of A-S setting up shop for full production are the promoters. (Not ignoring the benefit to the players or enthusiasts - or A-S itself). My vote is for the promoters to pony up and really turn their events into something memorable. They will get the ultimate benefit if they run more events.

 

[JustPlay]

What I meant was that there can be a match that even though there are quality players it doesn't guarantee a great match people will pay for. Every match that is taped is competing against other matches he has for market share. Certain matches that were known to be good will sell. A blow out that ends in 25 minutes is almost un-sellable even if one of the players put together racks. Remember, these tapes are not cheap. ...........



Macguy, I understand your point completely and it makes good sense. There are matches I have that I watched once and really dont want to watch again and wondered why I bought it in the first place. That is why I mentioned one camera and no frills. Tapes could be sold around $15 insead of the 22-30 dollar range.

The reason I brought up this thread was that since last year, there have been some great tournaments right in Pat's back yard (big apple challenge, New Jersey straight Pool etc..) and the opportunity was missed. I would never expect Pat to travel all over the country taping matches thats just unrealistic. But where else can you see Mike Sigel scratching on a shot and then watching him snap his cue shaft in half (LOL).

I hope that Pat Flemming's Accu stats success will be able to grow in the near future. He has definitly captured some great moments on tape.

 

[macguy]

What I meant was that there can be a match that even though there are quality players it doesn't guarantee a great match people will pay for. Every match that is taped is competing against other matches he has for market share. Certain matches that were known to be good will sell. A blow out that ends in 25 minutes is almost un-sellable even if one of the players put together racks. Remember, these tapes are not cheap. ...........



Macguy, I understand your point completely and it makes good sense. There are matches I have that I watched once and really dont want to watch again and wondered why I bought it in the first place. That is why I mentioned one camera and no frills. Tapes could be sold around $15 insead of the 22-30 dollar range.

The reason I brought up this thread was that since last year, there have been some great tournaments right in Pat's back yard (big apple challenge, New Jersey straight Pool etc..) and the opportunity was missed. I would never expect Pat to travel all over the country taping matches thats just unrealistic. But where else can you see Mike Sigel scratching on a shot and then watching him snap his cue shaft in half (LOL).

I hope that Pat Flemming's Accu stats success will be able to grow in the near future. He has definitly captured some great moments on tape.

He may be able to do them a little cheaper today then before. I don't know much about this stuff, but I remember like ten years ago him showing me some piece of equipment he had just bought for something like $40,000 for mixing and editing tapes. I bet the average computer today can do what that expensive machine did and may cost less then a $1000. I like the idea of promoters doing it thenselves at tournament like someone else suggested. You would have to have the players sign a release giving you the rights to the matches but if you are putting up the money, why not. It would make it more profitable to put on tournaments and also spread the game. I don't care if the tape is perfectly edited, in fact I like the idea of it feeling like I am there without any edits. I used to own a pool room and had a camera set up on the main table everybody played on. We used to love watching the matches the next day. Not everybody wants to hang out all night. It was just a static shot but was very watch-able.