What if Player want to get Paid?

pooljunkie4ever

Grab Life by the BALL!
Silver Member
With all the live streams going PPV, will some pro players resist showing there talents without a piece of the pie? I don't think this has happened yet, but I can see this maybe being an issue in the future. If I'm not mistaken, this happened with with some of the pro women playing in a local tournament, the weren't allowed to play on the stream table.

So what would happen if lets say a pro makes it close to the finals of a big tournament and he decides to boycott the stream table?
 

JAM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some entities require the players to sign something that states they agree that their likeness can be used for the event, to include broadcasting on media/TV.

At Allen Hopkins/Matt Brauer's Skin Billiard Championship, all players had to sign a written document stating they knew they were going to be filmed on ESPN and that their likeness would be used in this regard. Their payday was how much they won in the event. Not everybody made a score, but it sure was fun for them to compete and get a chance to win a whopping $130,000 purse.

Pat Fleming of Accu-Stats does pay royalty checks to players who compete on videos that he is filming.

Sometimes it is the winner of the event who makes a score. They may have an arrangement with those powers-that-be to receive a portion of DVD sales thereafter. Most of these arrangements are done before the event begins.

Truthfully, it should be nobody's business except the players when it comes to how much they're pocketing, if anything. ;)

HTH!
 

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Jerry Forsyth

Well-known member
The pros are pretty savvy as to the state of streaming. They know that no one is making any real money at it, and that most are still under water financially as they have not yet recouped the cost of equipment and personnel.

They also are aware that the exposure is very good for them. They have current and potential future sponsors and the more exposure a player gets the happier these sponsors are. So the players DO have a financial advantage to being on the stream. Plus, I am not aware of any streamers who capture their matches and put them out on DVD who do not share the revenue from those DVD's with the players. There may be some, it is not something I have tracked, but I know of streamers who do share the income.

The big advantage of streaming to the pros is the exposure that streaming gives the game. Anything that promotes the sport is good for the pros. A rising tide lifts all boats. This is like anything else in pool. If promoters and streamers and billiard firms were all making a lot of good money then the pros would be making a lot more money. It is all about getting money to flow again in the billiard world.

So for players to make demands on streamers now, while streaming is in its infancy, would be very short-sighted and would be a form of self-destruction if it chased the streamers away from the market. The relationship is symbiotic and both the players and streamers need each other. We at AZB do not do PPV, we only do free streams as we need as many viewers as possible to build the game and, hopefully, AZB can grow with it. But we use streaming as a loss-leader. It brings more people into our universe and that is to our advantage. But most streamers do not have that advantage or ability, so we know the PPV model will be around for a while, at least until everyone can use their remote controls at home to tune their TV's to internet channels like Ustream. That day is coming, but it is not here as yet.

Streaming faces hurdles in the US that it does not face in other countries because we play tournaments here in very dark rooms. For streaming to mature every table in the room must be lit well enough to be streamed. We get one table at Derby, one table at the U.S. Open and one table at most other large US events. That does not portend growth. The fans want choice. They want to be able to pick the table that they watch. That is where we really need to go. As the internet bandwidth continues to expand and the pipes become large enough to handle the load then we need to get cameras on every table so that fans can watch whomever they want. But before we can do that we must stop playing in dark rooms. They light them up everywhere else in the world. The rooms are so bright that often there are no lights required over the tables. And in those countries pool is very, very popular. Here we continue the dark, negative connotations with our staging of the game.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As usual...Jerry says all the good stuff!

Streaming is not a money maker on its own; can't get blood from a stone.
 
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ironman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With all the live streams going PPV, will some pro players resist showing there talents without a piece of the pie? I don't think this has happened yet, but I can see this maybe being an issue in the future. If I'm not mistaken, this happened with with some of the pro women playing in a local tournament, the weren't allowed to play on the stream table.

So what would happen if lets say a pro makes it close to the finals of a big tournament and he decides to boycott the stream table?

last year at the Texas open I scheduled two well known local ladies to play on the Streamed table.
one of them walked directly up to me and informed I would have to pay her $200 in order to comply with the WPBA.
We played them on a different table as I was not about to pay the WPBA anything.
It set me to thinking though, what if I had insisted she play on the table I had scheduled? had she refused, i could have forfeited her. i feel I would have been within my rights. it never came near this, but just a curious situation?
Furtherly what if I had said, i simply don't recognize the WPBA? i don't see where they would have any recourse??
This is not my stance on this situation, but i believe some would take that stance.
 

Jerry Forsyth

Well-known member
The key here is advance planning. The WPBA has invested a lot in media themselves and they have helped their players develop at least a modicum of 'star" power. Before we ever did the first stream we contacted the WPBA and were given a very common-sense rule with which to work. They said we could stream the WPBA ladies in regional events at no charge but would have to pay the WPBA a negotiated rate (depending on the event) for the largest events, the ones that draw the most crowds.

This is reasonable and it is all about supply and demand. If a streamer increases the supply of video available with WPBA stars featured then that lessens the rarity (and thereby the value) of the ESPN footage. So the WPBA would want to recover some of that lost value from those causing the loss. At the same time the WPBA realizes that streaming may play a huge part in their future plans and they do not wish to kill the golden goose before it has a chance to begin producing eggs. So they let the streamers carry the dark-table small events for free and ask for modest payment at the well-lit and properly staged events where the quality could compete with ESPN.

To clear this up, I doubt the player asked for money for herself. The only requests that I have ever heard are for payment to be made to the organization, the WPBA, that has invested so much in developing the WPBA media status.
 

pooljunkie4ever

Grab Life by the BALL!
Silver Member
The information above is good to know. As a tournament director, he would have the final say so, since he has scheduled your match. If you don't show up or refuse to play, you should forfeit. Don't know if this is right or wrong, but,
if the players know upfront, then there shouldn't be any issues.

I know when I played in the Ultimate 10ball tournament, I did sign a waver.
 

Posmanic

15 Rack Player
Silver Member
Every torny that i have played in that had a stream and/or a camera man taking pictures I had to sign a waver for my image. So if they signed it then its on them to forfeit or pay the fees themselves if there was no waver then the tourny director is leaving themselves open for alot of trouble not just demands for a stream table!
 
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