When will the US and the Philippines embrace snooker?

[O'SulliReyes]

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/12/snooker/383524/

With the continuing rise in popularity of snooker worldwide, isn't it about time that the US and the Philippines, two countries in which pool is the dominant cue sport, start to embrace snooker? If I was Barry Hearn, I'd definitely see America as a potential huge market for snooker. Sadly I think he sees it otherwise, as he is leaving out the US as potential locations to set up Q schools in a long-term effort to expand snooker worldwide. Probably one good reason for this is because he thinks that, and I quote:

“The American psyche is all about results and crash, bang, wallop. Do they have the ability to appreciate something that takes time and is cultured?”

“An American audience would never understand why a [World championship] semi-final takes three days”

Cue sports in the Philippines is a big thing. And with the tremendous amount of talent that they have there, it would be a damn shame if snooker as a sport didn't utilize the sheer amount of potential world caliber players. As a Filipino snooker player currently residing in Singapore, I can see that Southeast Asia too can be a huge market.

Pool was not an uncommon fixture in the Philippines before the 90s, but when Efren won the world title back in '99, pool enjoyed a modern golden era in the country--pool tables suddenly sprung up like mushrooms all over the archipelago. Snooker is the primary cue sport in Thailand, and one can argue that this is because of a number of Thai players who managed to make it into the business end of the snooker world rankings, ie James Wattana in the 80s and currently, Dechawat Poomjaeng and Thepchaiya Un-Nooh. Would there have been a snooker boom in the Philippines if Efren was a snooker player and beat Mark Williams instead of Chang Hao-Ping? Not outside the realm of possibility.

So personally I think all it takes is one or a handful of pioneering Filipino snooker players winning a regional/international snooker title, and it would open the floodgates for snooker in the Philippines. And I'm not talking about seasoned pool players trying their hand in snooker; we need players learning from the get-go proper cueing fundamentals, ie. doing away with the closed bridge, no loosey-goosy strokes, no one-piece cue actions, aiming through proper body and head alignment etc. The recent SEA Games was held here in Singapore, and it was good to see the Philippines sending its own representatives to play competitive snooker. So maybe that's a good start!

So when do you think these two countries will embrace snooker? And under what circumstances will this scenario happen?

 

[Shooter08]

Snooker will never take off in this country, the table takes up to much space. It's hard to find a 9ft table let alone a snooker table in Wisconsin.

 

[axejunkie]

I won't try to speak for the PI. Honestly don't see snooker really ever taking off in the US. Pool is struggling here so nothing points to another cuesport finding an opportunity IMO. Entertainment rules here and snooker can't compete in that realm.

 

[realkingcobra]

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/12/snooker/383524/

With the continuing rise in popularity of snooker worldwide, isn't it about time that the US and the Philippines, two countries in which pool is the dominant cue sport, start to embrace snooker? If I was Barry Hearn, I'd definitely see America as a potential huge market for snooker. Sadly I think he sees it otherwise, as he is leaving out the US as potential locations to set up Q schools in a long-term effort to expand snooker worldwide. Probably one good reason for this is because he thinks that, and I quote:

“The American psyche is all about results and crash, bang, wallop. Do they have the ability to appreciate something that takes time and is cultured?”

Cue sports in the Philippines is a big thing. And with the tremendous amount of talent that they have there, it would be a damn shame if snooker as a sport didn't utilize the sheer amount of potential world caliber players. As a Filipino snooker player currently residing in Singapore, I can see that Southeast Asia too can be a huge market.

Pool was not an uncommon fixture in the Philippines before the 90s, but when Efren won the world title back in '99, pool enjoyed a modern golden era in the country--pool tables suddenly sprung up like mushrooms all over the archipelago. So personally I think all it takes is one or a handful of pioneering Filipino snooker players winning a regional/international snooker title, and it would open the floodgates for snooker in the Philippines. And I'm not talking about seasoned pool players trying their hand in snooker; we need players learning from the get-go proper cueing fundamentals, ie. doing away with the closed bridge, no loosey-goosy strokes, no one-piece cue actions, aiming through proper body and head alignment etc. The recent SEA Games was held here in Singapore, and it was good to see the Philippines sending its own representatives to play competitive snooker. So maybe that's a good start!

So when do you think these two countries will embrace snooker? And under what circumstances will this scenario happen?

Instead of worrying about Snooker in the USA, you'd be better off trying to save it in Canada, where it was big at one time, but dropping like flies sprayed with RAID:thumbup:

 

[Celtic]

So when do you think these two countries will embrace snooker? And under what circumstances will this scenario happen?

I don't really think it will happen.

I am from Canada and I have seen the complete reverse direction occur. When I was young snooker was definitely already on the way out but I remember a lot of snooker tables were around and a lot of people still played snooker. Our top pool pros were pretty much all from a snooker background.

Now in Canada it is few and far between as far as pool halls that have even a single snooker table. There are few people who play the game, there are almost no events or competitions to hone skills in the game, it is a dead game now in Canada for the most part.

Snooker in Canada actually "had" a following, we "had" a Canadian win the world championships and had numerous world class level snooker pros, it did not matter. The game died, pool sort of took over for a while, but TBH it is dying as well.

The thing killing these games is mostly the change in culture from socialization in public spaces to a shift to people entertaining themselves and socializing in the digital world. The pool hall was a place you went to hang out and socialize and play pool. Now people stay at home and play video games, watch Netflix and get their socialization via social media for the most part.

Pool is dying, and snooker is in trouble too. Look at the audience at the US Open, it was a sea of white haired old men for the most part. There are very few young people taking their place, we are slowly seeing the death of the sport as we slowly lose on old school pool fan after another.

 

[jwh1942]

If Canada or the U.S. had bookie shops on every corner like U.K. maybe the money would dictate what happens. Look at the difference in payouts comparing snooker to pool here, it becomes a joke. There are entirely too many obvious differences to count. One of which is how serious countries other than U.S. and Canada approach training. How many Canadians or U.S. citizens use professional training? Compare that to golf or tennis pro schooling worldwide and you'll begin to fathom the huge gap.

 

[Cameron Smith]

So long as pool is seen as a viable alternative for competitive cue sports, new players will continue to favor it in countries where pool is already popular. Although I believe both games are equally challenging in their own ways, the fact is that snooker has a far steeper initial learning curve.

I see it a lot where anyone I introduce to snooker will really enjoy the concept of the game, but still favour pool because they can pocket more balls. I read all the time how more snooker tables in the uk are being replaced with pool tables.

 

[O'SulliReyes]

So long as pool is seen as a viable alternative for competitive cue sports, new players will continue to favor it in countries where pool is already popular. Although I believe both games are equally challenging in their own ways, the fact is that snooker has a far steeper initial learning curve.

I see it a lot where anyone I introduce to snooker will really enjoy the concept of the game, but still favour pool because they can pocket more balls. I read all the time how more snooker tables in the uk are being replaced with pool tables.

That's quite true unfortunately.

If Canada or the U.S. had bookie shops on every corner like U.K. maybe the money would dictate what happens. Look at the difference in payouts comparing snooker to pool here, it becomes a joke. There are entirely too many obvious differences to count. One of which is how serious countries other than U.S. and Canada approach training. How many Canadians or U.S. citizens use professional training? Compare that to golf or tennis pro schooling worldwide and you'll begin to fathom the huge gap.

I agree with you on this. Here's one post back in 2012 by sfleinen that sums it up quite nicely:

Also, teaching and coaching in snooker is by and far more regimented compared to pool. There's even a published syllabus that goes w-a-y back, that most (if not all) snooker instructors and coaches teach from. Compare that to pool, which traditionally has been a "learn as you go" approach. The former enforces that all aspects of good fundamentals are covered, while the latter encourages laziness -- where the player picks and chooses what he/she wants to learn, according to the "fad of the day" or what he/she sees as a "magic pill."

Thus, in pool, basic fundamentals such as proper head/eye alignment to the shot line (including the discovery of what is one's "vision center" and the bearing a dominant eye has upon it) is never learned, or learned through "fad of the day" teaching techniques as you see being aggressively marketed on the pool forums. Those "marketing for a buck" techniques are doing a service though, in that they attempt to plug a hole or two in the swiss cheese approach to learning pool.

Summary: snooker's greater accuracy is a "fallout" -- a result, if you will -- of proper teaching techniques and proper syllabus/learning on the part of the student. Pool's lack of it (lack of same level of accuracy, that is) is a result of the mindset of "get what you need to make it good enough for government work," as well as a result of accepting what the equipment allows vs. exploiting the equipment intentionally

 

[jwh1942]

Cameron Smith you have a good point about popularity or "viable alternative", but the big thing I was trying to point out is the lack of money spent on training. Of course, the prize money is huge, but the failure of so many people like me at a young age to seek out professional training is truly a waste. While so many of my friends were paying "pro's" to learn golf or tennis I believed that "hamb" was enough (hit a million balls). HUGE mistake and I grew up in Philadelphia. Pa. playing at Willy Mosconi's poolroom on Rockland Street..........the "old guys" never suggested looking for a coach.....it either never entered their minds or would have represented a threat. FYI, I went to Tony Robles, Jerry Breisath and Randy G. in Dallas in later years. Wish I'd done that at a young age as it really did help of course.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Takes too much room.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Cameron Smith you have a good point about popularity or "viable alternative", but the big thing I was trying to point out is the lack of money spent on training. Of course, the prize money is huge, but the failure of so many people like me at a young age to seek out professional training is truly a waste. While so many of my friends were paying "pro's" to learn golf or tennis I believed that "hamb" was enough (hit a million balls). HUGE mistake and I grew up in Philadelphia. Pa. playing at Willy Mosconi's poolroom on Rockland Street..........the "old guys" never suggested looking for a coach.....it either never entered their minds or would have represented a threat. FYI, I went to Tony Robles, Jerry Breisath and Randy G. in Dallas in later years. Wish I'd done that at a young age as it really did help of course.

Part of that is the perction of both games in North America. By the time most of us decide we want to take the game seriously we have a laundry list of bad habits to work on. Many never bother at all except for the more determined players.

I agree about the necessity of coaching, both are tough games to go it alone.

 

[fish2]

I'm from the Philippines and sadly finding a pool halls is getting difficult. When Efren won the World 9 ball pool championship the pool industry had a huge boom, pool halls were opening up like mushroom. Now a lot of them has closed and only a few remain.

As for snooker getting popular, i think i have better chances winning the lottery than snooker gaining any ground here in Manila.

 

[arps]

snooker takes too much space. also, a snooker "rack" takes too long to finish - not good for gambling.

 

[midnightpulp]

At the risk of coming off like a close-minded asshole, hopefully never (if "embracing it" means phasing out pool/relegating it to 2nd place among cue sports in the two countries). I think pool is the better game (not necessarily 9 ball, but just pool in general).

If any cue sport is to be embraced by the US, I would like us to re-embrace 3 cushion, which was neck-and-neck with pool as America's favorite cue sport in the Hoppe/Cochran days.

 

[Ron Swanson]

If football - the world game by a country mile - cannot get a foothold in the US, snooker has no chance.

 

[midnightpulp]

If football - the world game by a country mile - cannot get a foothold in the US, snooker has no chance.

No anglo country aside from your island really embraces soccer, since they've created superior national games for themselves (Aus: AFL, Canada: Ice Hockey, United States: Football and Basketball).

 

[Ron Swanson]

At the risk of coming off like a close-minded asshole, hopefully never (if "embracing it" means phasing out pool/relegating it to 2nd place among cue sports in the two countries). I think pool is the better game (not necessarily 9 ball, but just pool in general).

If any cue sport is to be embraced by the US, I would like us to re-embrace 3 cushion, which was neck-and-neck with pool as America's favorite cue sport in the Hoppe/Cochran days.

3 cushion?! Personally, I'm hoping for a big tiddlewinks revival, Pulps, though I'm not ruling out going large on shove halfpenny, either.

 

[Ron Swanson]

No anglo country aside from your island really embraces soccer, since they've created superior national games for themselves (Aus: AFL, Canada: Ice Hockey, United States: Football and Basketball).

We have our own boring niche sports too, none of which are played much outside the british isles.

 

[midnightpulp]

3 cushion?! Personally, I'm hoping for a big tiddlewinks revival, Pulps, though I'm not ruling out going large on shove halfpenny, either.

You'd make a 147 before you'd run a 10 in 3 cushion.

Snewka is an accuracy competition, archery on a 12 foot table, while 3 cushion is the most imaginative and creative cue sport on the planet. Pool isn't far behind with its innovation of jump shots, bank shots, combinations (illegal in snewka), caroms, billiards, masses, etc, etc.

For all your love of modernity, snewka is a relic from your Imperialist past. I ain't hating. It's part of your culture. Embrace it. But I couldn't care less if the game lives or dies.

 

[RiverCity]

Takes too much room.

Thats the long and short of it. The Anchorage Billiard Palace, (which has had at least one 12' snooker table set up as a golf table since Mark opened it in I want to say 1988 or 89), changed ownership a year or 2 ago and one of the first things the new owner did, was pull out the 12' beast, and add in more Diamond bar boxes. Regular table time was 5 or 6 an hour, but the golf table was only 3 per hour. So 3 bar tables at 6 an hour or 1 snooker table at 3 an hour and limited clientele. Which would you choose?