Who here has "hustled" or made a living on the road?
- Thread starter mrpool06
- Start date
trainer said:Tell J.P. that i said hi..Terry Osborne
I will most certainly do that, but he's off and running with a couple of guys from Miami so I might not see him for a bit. I based the "unknown" adjective on the fact that someone started a thread asking about him, and almost no one responded. Maybe it's still possible to stay under the radar somewhat.
Time on the Road
I got more time on the road then the Greyhound bus line.
the Beard
I got more time on the road then the Greyhound bus line.
the Beard
SkippyFL said:
You could be right; I was trying to pay him a complement and may have stepped over the line. It's sometimes a little murky about what constitutes knocking someone and just passing on what's going on (at least in my mind). I will take your advice to heart and be more careful in the future.
I don't know the US scene too much other than what I read here, but I suspect the road traveller / hustler player is more fantasy than reality, though I'm sure there is more opportunity for that method of earnings in the US than in other countries.
In Australia, myself and I'd estimate a few dozen others around the country made the majority, if not all their income via pool for some period of time over a few years.
There was very rarely any hustling in the fashion that it is usually imagined. The ways guys tended to make money were via the following:
1. Attending many bar and club tourneys 3 to 10 per week. (Yes, in Sydney, some of the players could enter 3 bar tourneys in 1 day a couple of days a week).
2. Keeping an eye out for new big egos / gamblers in town.
3. Knowing some existing player / gamblers and matching them up with your underlings / trainees by knowing where they were at, maybe getting a call from guys working at bars when they turned up.
4. Going to larger tournies and either getting a good result or picking up a few $ on the challenge tables.
5. Just matching up with nearby good players who couldn't resist a good woof or whose ego was starting to get the better of them.
6. Buying visiting buddies in local calcuttas or matching them up with cocky locals when they visited.
7. Just being in the bars and picking up the odd $10 / 20 / 50 game against some strangers...or just winning some drinks and a few$ to cover expenses.
That was about it, and about all I've ever heard. The better players who won regularly the bigger events tended to do the best.
There was very little actual hustling or just drifting into new towns looking for action.
I suggest if someone wants to try themselves out, that they should look for a city where there is plenty of action and small money events. That way you'll get regular action if you want it, and you'll make some money if you're good enough.
But seems driving round cities trying to stay under the radar is a kind of movie myth, accept maybe for those who know the right places to go and have experience in trying to tap this type of resource as Old Has Been has done.
In Australia, myself and I'd estimate a few dozen others around the country made the majority, if not all their income via pool for some period of time over a few years.
There was very rarely any hustling in the fashion that it is usually imagined. The ways guys tended to make money were via the following:
1. Attending many bar and club tourneys 3 to 10 per week. (Yes, in Sydney, some of the players could enter 3 bar tourneys in 1 day a couple of days a week).
2. Keeping an eye out for new big egos / gamblers in town.
3. Knowing some existing player / gamblers and matching them up with your underlings / trainees by knowing where they were at, maybe getting a call from guys working at bars when they turned up.
4. Going to larger tournies and either getting a good result or picking up a few $ on the challenge tables.
5. Just matching up with nearby good players who couldn't resist a good woof or whose ego was starting to get the better of them.
6. Buying visiting buddies in local calcuttas or matching them up with cocky locals when they visited.
7. Just being in the bars and picking up the odd $10 / 20 / 50 game against some strangers...or just winning some drinks and a few$ to cover expenses.
That was about it, and about all I've ever heard. The better players who won regularly the bigger events tended to do the best.
There was very little actual hustling or just drifting into new towns looking for action.
I suggest if someone wants to try themselves out, that they should look for a city where there is plenty of action and small money events. That way you'll get regular action if you want it, and you'll make some money if you're good enough.
But seems driving round cities trying to stay under the radar is a kind of movie myth, accept maybe for those who know the right places to go and have experience in trying to tap this type of resource as Old Has Been has done.
OldHasBeen
Tom Ferry
It was quite a good & exciting life - Thanks You!
I was literally "Foot Loose & Fancy Free" & "On The Road" for over 25 years.
The Day my wife said we were going to have a child - IT ENDED RIGHT THEN.
Please don't worry about my SS, IRA's, R.E. Investments or stock portfolio. Since I started my advertising business (in '91) that is doing biz in 24 states - I have done quite well for a Pool Hustler.
HUSTLING IS NOTHING BUT BUSINESS USING A DIFFERENT & COMPLETLY HONEST APPROACH.
TY & GL, OHB
Josh Palmer said:Yeah... not to mention all that Social Security that you don't build up. What a retirement plan! Woo hoo. I never envy anyone's ability to play pool for a living(ok, maybe the one's making 6 digits), and especially not a road player. What a life
I was literally "Foot Loose & Fancy Free" & "On The Road" for over 25 years.
The Day my wife said we were going to have a child - IT ENDED RIGHT THEN.
Please don't worry about my SS, IRA's, R.E. Investments or stock portfolio. Since I started my advertising business (in '91) that is doing biz in 24 states - I have done quite well for a Pool Hustler.
HUSTLING IS NOTHING BUT BUSINESS USING A DIFFERENT & COMPLETLY HONEST APPROACH.
TY & GL, OHB
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O
onepocketchump
Guest
Colin Colenso said:
I think that you would find that in America there are plenty of guys who "do the road" in some form or fashion. It is very much a reality. I believe though that it is getting harder because of the easier access to information and the knock. Still though, if Danny Basavich could do it then there are plenty of others who can. Most real road players already know who the target is before they get to a town. So they know how to play it.
I think there are very few players who live "on the road" constantly. Most of the players I know go out for a while and then go home for a while. A lot of players plan their road trips around medium to large tournaments.
When I was in Germany I very rarely ran into anyone that could be considered a "road player". I am sure that there are players in Europe who do hustle around and I knew plenty of those players who didn't do much besides gamble on pool and cards. I never heard of any of them going on the road though. They were just always present at most decently sized events. I think the Americans introduced the Europeans, expscially the Germans, to the concept of the road player when people like Tom Brown and Toby Sweet went over there and started taking people off.
Hey, is Tom Brown still around? He is a champion that kind of fell off the radar.
John
You know that you have an overwhelming desire to go on the road.
Warm Regards & good luck. Don't forget to pass by New Orleans. Lots of insurance money in New Orleans now and Humphrey (author of the Green Felt Jungle) is betting it big, playing for $1000 a game at Buffalo's a few times this very week. Others betting it up too.
JoeyA
Warm Regards & good luck. Don't forget to pass by New Orleans. Lots of insurance money in New Orleans now and Humphrey (author of the Green Felt Jungle) is betting it big, playing for $1000 a game at Buffalo's a few times this very week. Others betting it up too.
JoeyA
jnav447 said:
Playing Pool for a living
I did it for eight years in the late 60's to early 70's when I bought a poolroom in Bakersfield called the Cue Ball. Then I settled down and raised a family, although I played a million roadmen in my place (that's another story).
I noticed early on the top players (like Ed Kelly, Richie Ambrose, Jersey Red etc.) had trouble getting a game. They were just too well known. And they always seemed to be broke or looking for a stakehorse.
I wanted to play someone every day, so I was contantly searching for games. My style was to go in a poolroom, walk up to the counter and tell the houseman I was looking for a game. Usually they would ask how do you play, and I would tell him I played okay.
More often than not, they found someone for me to play fairly quickly. I didn't fool around trying to find the weakest players or the best score. I just went after the best player in the room. Most of the time we played 9-Ball or One Pocket, but I would play any game they suggested, even playing snooker and billiards once or twice.
I played different guys every day, hundreds of them, over the course of eight years. Even today, guys come up to me and ask if I remember playing them. Most of the time I don't, although I remember all the guys who beat me. Lisciotti, Marino, Wade Crane, Jack Cooney and Peter Gunn got me, among a few others.
You may find this hard to believe but sometimes I would go for months without losing. And that is with being in action every day. I was a rare player in that I had a bank account and money in my pocket. In those days, you did good if you won 50-100 dollars a day.
I just avoided the top players, most of whom I knew from seeing them in Johnson City or the Stardust. If I didn't know a guy, I was ready to play him. What often happened was after beating someone, a sweator would tell me where someone else played and I would head over there.
Sometimes I would just drive into a town and go to a phone booth and take out the page with the billiard rooms. I would start by going to the room with the biggest Ad.
I went back and forth across the country (in the days of 30 cent gas and $10 motel rooms) driving a Corvette or my Eldorado. Mostly across the South (it was warmer) and ended up staying out West. New York was by far the toughest city to make money in. 60 year old men that played good 14.1
(run 30-40 balls and play safe). And a host of black guys that played Banks.
I used to play Jerry "The Actor" at Guys and Dolls on 52nd and Broadway. He later became Jerry Orbach. He was one of my few scores in NY. 7-11 was ridiculous with a zillion champions sitting around like vultures waiting for whoever came in. I never got out of there winning.
The best action was in the South, but also dangerous. I carried a little .25 in my back pocket all the time. I was a small guy traveling alone and I didn't want to be heisted. And guess what, it hasn't happened to this day (knock on wood). I only had to take the gun out twice, and never fired a shot.
Even then, there was money to be made in bars, but they are the most dangerous of all places to play. Drinking and gambling is a bad mix. I beat a guy in Santa Barbara named T.J. who was the leader of a biker gang. He had a peg leg (true!). I won all his money ($1,600 plus his Harley). He bought the bike back from me a few days later for a grand. My biggest score back then. T.J turned out to be a big drug dealer and a week or so later I see a story about him on the front page of the Santa Barbara newspaper. He got busted for selling drugs and they found loads of drugs in his home, plus thousands of dollars and a machine gun. Scared ths shit outa me.
A day or so later, I return to my apartment in Goleta (by UC Santa Barbara) and when I walk in two cops are waiting for me. One is behind the door and the other comes out of the bedroom. VERY SCARY! They question me about T.J. (he had my phone number in his phone book). I told them the truth. I played pool with T.J., won a little money and smoked some pot with a girl who worked in the bar. If they wanted to arrest me for that, fine. They let me go and I never heard from them again. Whew!
Oh well, enough horror stories about the road. All in all, it was the best education I ever got and prepared me well for whatever else came up in life. I say to this day, the hardest thing in life I've ever had to do is make the Nine Ball from off the end rail for all my cash. Now, that's pressure!
I did it for eight years in the late 60's to early 70's when I bought a poolroom in Bakersfield called the Cue Ball. Then I settled down and raised a family, although I played a million roadmen in my place (that's another story).
I noticed early on the top players (like Ed Kelly, Richie Ambrose, Jersey Red etc.) had trouble getting a game. They were just too well known. And they always seemed to be broke or looking for a stakehorse.
I wanted to play someone every day, so I was contantly searching for games. My style was to go in a poolroom, walk up to the counter and tell the houseman I was looking for a game. Usually they would ask how do you play, and I would tell him I played okay.
More often than not, they found someone for me to play fairly quickly. I didn't fool around trying to find the weakest players or the best score. I just went after the best player in the room. Most of the time we played 9-Ball or One Pocket, but I would play any game they suggested, even playing snooker and billiards once or twice.
I played different guys every day, hundreds of them, over the course of eight years. Even today, guys come up to me and ask if I remember playing them. Most of the time I don't, although I remember all the guys who beat me. Lisciotti, Marino, Wade Crane, Jack Cooney and Peter Gunn got me, among a few others.
You may find this hard to believe but sometimes I would go for months without losing. And that is with being in action every day. I was a rare player in that I had a bank account and money in my pocket. In those days, you did good if you won 50-100 dollars a day.
I just avoided the top players, most of whom I knew from seeing them in Johnson City or the Stardust. If I didn't know a guy, I was ready to play him. What often happened was after beating someone, a sweator would tell me where someone else played and I would head over there.
Sometimes I would just drive into a town and go to a phone booth and take out the page with the billiard rooms. I would start by going to the room with the biggest Ad.
I went back and forth across the country (in the days of 30 cent gas and $10 motel rooms) driving a Corvette or my Eldorado. Mostly across the South (it was warmer) and ended up staying out West. New York was by far the toughest city to make money in. 60 year old men that played good 14.1
(run 30-40 balls and play safe). And a host of black guys that played Banks.
I used to play Jerry "The Actor" at Guys and Dolls on 52nd and Broadway. He later became Jerry Orbach. He was one of my few scores in NY. 7-11 was ridiculous with a zillion champions sitting around like vultures waiting for whoever came in. I never got out of there winning.
The best action was in the South, but also dangerous. I carried a little .25 in my back pocket all the time. I was a small guy traveling alone and I didn't want to be heisted. And guess what, it hasn't happened to this day (knock on wood). I only had to take the gun out twice, and never fired a shot.
Even then, there was money to be made in bars, but they are the most dangerous of all places to play. Drinking and gambling is a bad mix. I beat a guy in Santa Barbara named T.J. who was the leader of a biker gang. He had a peg leg (true!). I won all his money ($1,600 plus his Harley). He bought the bike back from me a few days later for a grand. My biggest score back then. T.J turned out to be a big drug dealer and a week or so later I see a story about him on the front page of the Santa Barbara newspaper. He got busted for selling drugs and they found loads of drugs in his home, plus thousands of dollars and a machine gun. Scared ths shit outa me.
A day or so later, I return to my apartment in Goleta (by UC Santa Barbara) and when I walk in two cops are waiting for me. One is behind the door and the other comes out of the bedroom. VERY SCARY! They question me about T.J. (he had my phone number in his phone book). I told them the truth. I played pool with T.J., won a little money and smoked some pot with a girl who worked in the bar. If they wanted to arrest me for that, fine. They let me go and I never heard from them again. Whew!
Oh well, enough horror stories about the road. All in all, it was the best education I ever got and prepared me well for whatever else came up in life. I say to this day, the hardest thing in life I've ever had to do is make the Nine Ball from off the end rail for all my cash. Now, that's pressure!
A True Roadman
Danny Medina and his GF Laurette are asleep right now in my guest bedroom. He has made a living from pool for over 30 years and never done anything else. Amazing but true. Danny was a great money player who beat many of the top guys for years. He was virtually unbeatable in and around Denver. The guys he's beaten are a virtual Who's Who of famous pool players.
He still runs from tourney to tourney trying to survive, but It's getting tougher. Another one who called me on the phone last night and has stayed here is the Lizard (Steve Smith). A very good road hustler who still works at his trade. He's heading for Dallas to meet up with Billy Cardone for a little One Hole. Tough action, but the potential to win big, as Billy is pumped right now.
So roadmen exist today in America, probably a few hundred guys traversing the country looking for games.
Danny Medina and his GF Laurette are asleep right now in my guest bedroom. He has made a living from pool for over 30 years and never done anything else. Amazing but true. Danny was a great money player who beat many of the top guys for years. He was virtually unbeatable in and around Denver. The guys he's beaten are a virtual Who's Who of famous pool players.
He still runs from tourney to tourney trying to survive, but It's getting tougher. Another one who called me on the phone last night and has stayed here is the Lizard (Steve Smith). A very good road hustler who still works at his trade. He's heading for Dallas to meet up with Billy Cardone for a little One Hole. Tough action, but the potential to win big, as Billy is pumped right now.
So roadmen exist today in America, probably a few hundred guys traversing the country looking for games.
jay helfert said:
Yeah, for a while Danny could beat anybody in an ahead set. He had top pros flying to Denver to try and take him off and for the most part, they couldn't. I saw some great matchups with Danny and the thing that I learned the most from watching him is winning attitude.
He doesn't have any goofy BS in his head. He sees the shot, makes it and goes to the next one. I've never seen him get psyched out or nervous.
I know about 10 guys that have done nothing but gamble at pool their whole life. I don't want to knock their action by naming names, but many people on here have probably played them and never knew who they were or how good they played.
Cheers,
RC
jay helfert said:
Great insights and stories Jay!
Also, thanks to John for the feedback.
Certainly the geographical situation in the US (lots of big cities within a half day's drive connected) sets up a different set of economics for pool players seeking out a living from the game.
I've played in a couple of biker bars, and found most of them to be pretty decent hard workin' folks with an honor system in place. They gave credit where credit was due. So long as you didn't act like an ass or set out to hustle, they were good company.
drove around with the great white painter for too many years,,,,,lol. keep away from the dog track and hard licquer and you can come out ahead. o yeah,,,,,,poker can get ya broke or make the trip
Roadmen?
Jay, tell these guys if they want to say they're roadmen, then they have to go to the joints you and I went in. Like the Watts area in LA. Charley Neals PR and the all night PR in Culver City. Both pool rooms were all black clientele, with plenty of black gangsters in the mix. Even Daisy Mae's bar in Anaheim was a real rough joint, with mostly Spanish, Hillbillies and the mob guy, Charley the Ape. He played pretty good, but if you got him mad he would bend you like a pretzel. Wonderful times.
the Beard
Bank on, Brother!
jay helfert said:
Jay, tell these guys if they want to say they're roadmen, then they have to go to the joints you and I went in. Like the Watts area in LA. Charley Neals PR and the all night PR in Culver City. Both pool rooms were all black clientele, with plenty of black gangsters in the mix. Even Daisy Mae's bar in Anaheim was a real rough joint, with mostly Spanish, Hillbillies and the mob guy, Charley the Ape. He played pretty good, but if you got him mad he would bend you like a pretzel. Wonderful times.
the Beard
Bank on, Brother!
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
onepocketchump said:
I am very good friends with both TBrown and Toby. Tom, John DiToro & I traveled together in the late 80's...sadly he has had health issues that are thankfully behind him. Toby, <laughs> would rather walk the plank than play pool anymore. I speak to both of them monthly and dearly miss them both at tournaments and during late night action. The good days are great memories...
I live in Australia, and in Tasmania lots of pubs have "Calcutta's", where your auctioned off and all money goes into a prize pool for the winner (runner up gets a dozen beers!). Most pools are $200 - $400, and if you now the area you can usually play in 3 a week. May not be the big league, but there were 3 players I knew in the 80's who were comfortably off (one was in a the Australian team for several years). Ego was big, and it was great to knock one off these players out of you local calcutta!
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