Why is snooker profitable?

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Snooker has a number of advantages over pool when it comes to value as a spectator sport.

5. In snooker, luck plays a relatively small role. It is a sporting competition in which the better player is expected to win by better play. In pool, 9-ball in particular, the break plays such an outsized role in some matches that the game sometimes seems more like coin-flipping than a sporting event.

6. In snooker, the long matches are punctuated by frequent player turns and the seated player is generally very much engaged and ready for his return to the table. In pool, there are frequent stretches where one player is seated for what seems an eternity.

8. Gambling.

9. Snooker remains a significant part of it's primary market's culture. Pool, not so much.

10. High production values.

Agree with pretty much everything. I'll comment on the points I've quoted though....

5 and 8 are interesting - the luck element of pool lends itself to gambling because any decent player CAN beat a top class player, and any banger CAN beat a decent player in a short race. Only an idiot would play a much better player for money in a single frame of snooker. The gambling refers to the betting ON the sport as the bookies in the UK are part of an insanely developed industry (that might actually fare better than banking post-Brexit). That's not to say that players (who actually have some chance of beating each other) don't gamble between themselves, they do - it's just not as mythical as the "pool hustlers" in the USA (the land of the "road" players in billiards, cards and shootouts at high noon). The sponsorship from the betting industry certainly helps.

6 - pool has to be alternate break for televised tournaments and those watched live by a significant number of spectators - that you can lose, in theory and possibly in practice, without taking a shot has no place in a fair competition. Sure there are pros as well as cons of winner breaks but the pros are irrelevant if you want the casual channel hopper to take an initial interest and have that interest captured. This isn't winner stays on a bar box, it's the pinnacle of the game.

9. This is why the sport needs to disassociate itself with the road. The USA is a modern, developed country - not some new frontier.

10. High production values cost a fraction of what they did even one year ago (you can produce a good movie or 3 minute song on your PC) - there is a still a chance that it could happen in pool.
 
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Oze147

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree with most of the points made here.

I just came across this video for the 40th anniversary of the WC at the crucible.
Doesn`t really give an answer to why snooker is profitable, but it shines a light on how snooker could grow to what it is today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H16AdUSSnns
 

midnightpulp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it really does come down to cultural differences between the UK and the US.

"Pub" games seem to be more entrenched in English culture than US culture. Enough British eyes watch darts to the point where the tour's top players are more well off than any pool player.

Meanwhile, US audiences have tuned out indoor games like bowling (which once drew millions of viewers) and obviously pool.

Now sadly, if any indoor "sport" is going to fill that void, it'll be e-"sports" :barf:
 

Alan Morris

U.S. Snooker Association
Silver Member
Hello!

Actually the semifinals of this year's World Snooker Championship were broadcast in the United States on Facebook, it was the final that wasn't made available.

I know some people at World Snooker, who organize the professional World Snooker Tour, and I was informed this was due to the fact that there was a tv broadcaster for the final. Which tv channel it was I have no idea, as for some reason they wouldn't tell me - that's all I can inform you I'm afraid.

Best wishes.

So can anyone explain why the semi-finals and final of the World Snooker Championship will not be made available via Facebook in the USA, but everywhere else in the world?

What am I missing here Barry?
 

HaroldWilson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not an expert on the matter by any means but from my perspective there are a couple reasons behind this.

First of all Snooker has a better reputation as a gentlemans sport and will do so thanks to the more professional televised events. The players have strict regulations on what they are allowed to wear in matches wich contributes to more civilized atmosphere around the game. This sense of class is more attractive to sponsors, bringing more money in to the game. Also betting sites are drawn to big events as there is a large following around the biggest events and snooker is relatively easy to bet on.

Secondly the game itself is more strategic and demanding than pool is. Thanks to the strategy involved there is more people who dont necessarily play themselves watching the games as they are interesting with the safety battles and following offensice game. Similiar to chess in a way, knowing when to take on a shot and when to play a safe.

Third major reason for snookers succes is the spectators themselves and the way they behave in television set. More often than not the spectators recognise the exceptionally good shots and applaude to them accordingly. This makes the game easier to get in to as it teaches the new people watching the game to appreciate the efforts of the players. And while they are not applauding they are silent, not shouting their lungs out Euuuuuuuuuuurrrope or U S A! like the Mosconi cup for example. The closest pool comes to snookers appeal is World pool masters, that is an event to model the game after for the future in my opinion :smile:

Great points. I would like to add that on the back of sponsorship the game has been successfully marketed over the years. In fact during the eighties it was the most televised sport in the UK , ahead of football. Successful businessman such as Barry Hearn are also involved.

You also covered dress code which is hugely important to the games image so u will never see 100k money matches with the players dressed like beach bums.

Also the game has a lot of younger professionals who can present themselves well on camera and during interviews which attracts a massive following of women fans. Edicate and respect is another trait they display at the highest level.

The game is also a national sport so kids get into it at a young age and have academies they can attend after school and many schools have the game in-house. So they have something to aspire to.

However after all of this said, the game started in smokey dodgy clubs and had a bad reputation to start out with so not all hope is lost for pool.
 

JohnnyP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Micaela Tabb, cause she uh, doesn't take any crap off Earl? Maybe there's another reason.
 

hotelyorba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Snooker is a more interesting spectator sport - even the best players (and that includes O'Sullivan) will not clear every table in one turn, not giving the opponent a chance. In every frame the other player has a good chance of a comeback through safeties and/or a clinching break.

So if it is interesting for a spectator, enough people will want to watch it, which generates revenue.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree that even if pool did manage to shed its reputation, it still has to address its games, which are quite honestly horrible at best.

Eight ball is an utter train wreck of a game I think. Nine ball is a little better but not by much. Snooker is very interesting. It's got everything... shotmaking, strategy, moving around a pack.

If some miracle happened and we could somehow clean up pool's image, and we all started playing a new game with a consistent set of rules, I think then we could start talking about pool having a chance.

So, what you are saying is the pool needs a game where it takes at least 37 shots to complete a rack to make it interesting?
 

De420MadHatter

SicBiNature
Silver Member
Does England have as many brain dead idiots, spending their life staring at video games, as the US does? Especially the youth. It's quite comical here :thumbup:
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The whole is a gentlemens game reason is a joke. Lol There is nothing gentlemen about football but its the biggest money maker in the United States sports wise so save me that silly nonsense. It's simple... they have sponsors.. which means major tv networks can sell advertising time ..which means they get major tv spots. It's that simple lol
 

acesinc1999

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree that even if pool did manage to shed its reputation, it still has to address its games, which are quite honestly horrible at best.

Eight ball is an utter train wreck of a game I think. Nine ball is a little better but not by much. Snooker is very interesting. It's got everything... shotmaking, strategy, moving around a pack.

If some miracle happened and we could somehow clean up pool's image, and we all started playing a new game with a consistent set of rules, I think then we could start talking about pool having a chance.

So, what you are saying is the pool needs a game where it takes at least 37 shots to complete a rack to make it interesting?

^^^^This!^^^^

....except of course Pool does NOT need a new game. Simply play more Snooker!
 

vjmehra

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The whole is a gentlemens game reason is a joke. Lol There is nothing gentlemen about football but its the biggest money maker in the United States sports wise so save me that silly nonsense. It's simple... they have sponsors.. which means major tv networks can sell advertising time ..which means they get major tv spots. It's that simple lol

Snooker does to an extent play on the 'gentleman's game' image and for that reason has a large number of older fans, it might seem odd but it is genuinely popular with little old ladies (and gentleman)...part of this is because of the image.

Now that's not to say they don't market to a younger crowd, of course they do, but I don't think its the same target audience as the NFL.

One other key point is that the BBC have 'protected rights' to show the main 3 snooker tournaments (World Championships, Masters and UK), the satellite/cable providers are not allowed to bid for these (except to show outside the UK)...this is important as it means people can effectively watch for free even if they don't subscribe to any sports channels.
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
The whole is a gentlemens game reason is a joke. Lol There is nothing gentlemen about football but its the biggest money maker in the United States sports wise so save me that silly nonsense. It's simple... they have sponsors.. which means major tv networks can sell advertising time ..which means they get major tv spots. It's that simple lol

The only joke is the persistent but idiotic beliefs that the image of a fledgling sport really doesn't matter, and that sponsors are responsible for taking a sport from the fringes to mainstream success.

Let's start with the sponsors. You couldn't be more wrong, and in fact are so wrong that you actually have it exactly and totally backwards. It is not sponsors that attract people to a sport and make the sport a success. It is the success of a sport that attracts the sponsors.

Sponsors seek two basic things:
1) A good return on their money. While several factors are involved in getting a good return on their money, more than anything else this is dependent on very large numbers of eyeballs on their product. The very large numbers of eyeballs on their product comes from the very large numbers of fans viewing the sport.

2) A sport whose image reflects positively on their brand, or at the very least does not reflect negatively.

3) The more you have of #1 (fans, and good return on the sponsor money), the less you need of #2, although #2 never goes away and always retains some relevance.

You don't get fans by getting sponsors. You get sponsors by getting fans. This is what snooker did. Snooker built their fan base, and as a result they were able to secure good sponsors which then make it even easier to continue to build the sport and fan base even further, but without a pretty decent fan base to begin with, you can never get those first good sponsors to begin with either.

Number 3 pretty much sums up the fallacy of your "image doesn't matter" argument. It matters, a lot, especially at first. Yeah once you have a ton of fans and are making money for the sponsors hand over fist then yeah, you can get away with a bit more of an unsavory image. But you can't get away with it at first because sponsors simply aren't going to accept it when you don't yet have the exceptional fan base to offset it.

You mentioned [NFL] Football as an example of that supposedly supports your assertion that image doesn't matter. What you failed to consider however is that football had an extremely clean and wholesome image when it was becoming popular many decades ago. Yes, once it had already become extremely popular, it then became filled with unsavory characters, but by then it was already wildly popular and full of sponsors who were getting a great return on their money and so at that point it could get away with it to a large extent. But even so, players that get too out of line still get sanctioned by the league so that the league can retain its sponsors and fans.

Sponsors didn't make snooker popular. Snooker made itself popular which in turn then attracted the bigger and better sponsors--and one of the keys to their success was promoting a cleaner image because sponsors simply aren't going to accept a seedy image unless you have a large enough fan base to make it worth it them and you never have that large enough fan base in the beginning, hence the need for starting off with a cleaner image. Later on when you become popular you can get away with letting your image slide because image is less important to the sponsors once you are making them a ton of money.
 

bad_hit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Snooker has a number of advantages over pool when it comes to value as a spectator sport.

1. The vast majority of games are actual contests, that is to say both players will have a turn or multiple turns at the table, and the outcome will be contested. In pool, most games go one of two ways: either the breaker will sink a ball and run out, or the breaker will not sink a ball and watch the other player run out. Not very interesting from a spectator point of view.

2. In snooker, decision making plays a bigger role, particularly on whether to take on a shot or not. This invites the spectator to also have varying opinions on those decisions, which makes the game more interesting. In pool, pretty much all available shots are taken.

3. In snooker, there are more difficult shots, particularly long ones, where whether or not they will be potted is in doubt, and thus more exciting when they are made. In pool, all shots are pretty much expected to be made, and only misses cause excitement, as in, "How the heck did he miss that one?" But excitement over failure is counterproductive for spectating.

4. In snooker, long runs like a Century or a Maximum are considered achievements, something a spectator can be proud to witness, whereas in pool, running the table is run of the mill. And as for 3-packs or 5-packs or what have you, keeping count is too much work for the average spectator.

5. In snooker, luck plays a relatively small role. It is a sporting competition in which the better player is expected to win by better play. In pool, 9-ball in particular, the break plays such an outsized role in some matches that the game sometimes seems more like coin-flipping than a sporting event.

6. In snooker, the long matches are punctuated by frequent player turns and the seated player is generally very much engaged and ready for his return to the table. In pool, there are frequent stretches where one player is seated for what seems an eternity.

7. Snooker players seem to have a swashbuckling flair, while pool players present more like Revenge of the Nerds.

8. Gambling.

9. Snooker remains a significant part of it's primary market's culture. Pool, not so much.

10. High production values.

11. It's a very easy game for the average viewer to understand - hit a red ball, hit a colored ball, hit a red ball, hit a colored ball...get more points than the other guy. Pool is WAY more complex and subtle in almost every way. Regular people (and even a lot of pool players) can't appreciate what's going on so tune out.

12. Snooker is ONE game, played the same way everywhere. "Pool" is a bunch of different games with all different rules even for the same game. No one can follow that.

13. Snooker is run and promoted by one organized body. Pool is run by everyone everywhere.

14. Ronnie O'Sullivan is cooler than you

15. Judd Trump is better than you at everything

:D
 

trophycue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
snooker vs pool

Snooker ....... Barry Hearn, alex higgins, and steve Davis.......pool.......... Barry Behrman, Mackey and buddy Hall
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great points. I would like to add that on the back of sponsorship the game has been successfully marketed over the years. In fact during the eighties it was the most televised sport in the UK , ahead of football. Successful businessman such as Barry Hearn are also involved.

You also covered dress code which is hugely important to the games image so u will never see 100k money matches with the players dressed like beach bums.

Also the game has a lot of younger professionals who can present themselves well on camera and during interviews which attracts a massive following of women fans. Edicate and respect is another trait they display at the highest level.

The game is also a national sport so kids get into it at a young age and have academies they can attend after school and many schools have the game in-house. So they have something to aspire to.

However after all of this said, the game started in smokey dodgy clubs and had a bad reputation to start out with so not all hope is lost for pool.
No not alls lost but thinking even for a brief second pool has the ability to rise to that level is dreaming at best it's simply not the same game by any stretch of the imagination, it can be better but it will never be what snooker is we simply have many many sports/ games more entertaining that we dominate in that's what is appealing, hell just saw drone racing and corn hole getting coverage on ESPN this weekend ,, dropping pool farther down the grid ,, is what it is

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