WHY is the US Open on the 7 Foot tables now?

[vjmehra]

What would make it a lot more interesting is if the balls and pockets were also 1/2 size, and I'm 100% serious about that. I'd enjoy watching that and playing that, and it would respect the big difference in table playing area. It would be a different game, and it is anyway, so why not just make it a different game and be done with it?

That's essentially English Pool which seems to be growing in popularity over here as 9-Ball declines :-(

The IPA tour appears to have a large number of events on these days and sponsorship from a leading UK bookie!

For what it's worth as far as I'm aware English Pool is streamed online (as is the GB9 tour) but there is none shown on to, unlike 9-Ball which is shown on Sky.

 

[jasonlaus]

There's a difference between comparing the outfield wall at different ballparks, vs comparing a major league ballpark to a school yard. Didn't one match go without even one missed pot? 10' to 9' tables don't completely change the game, and I might argue that even 8' tables aren't so bad, though it's borderline. 7' tables are completely different. Just look at the areas of the table:

10' - 50sq"
9' - 40sq"
7' - 24.5sq"

It's just over 1/2 the playing surface of a 9' and not even close to the difference between a 10' and 9' table. That's a pretty drastic reduction in actually playing surface.

I have a 10' table and there is a big difference between it and a 9' - alot of the strong players fall of quite a bit on the 10'er. Can't even imagine how bad a casual player would be on a 10'.
Don't fool yourself by thinking it's close
Jason

 

[Nick B]

Let's just get one thing straight. Pro Cut refers to the dimension on the throat of the pocket. Diamond BB tables have shorter shelves and thus play easier. Go measure.


Regards

Nick B

 

[Get_A_Grip]

I actually don't mind the pros playing on 7-foot tables. It is still exciting to watch, and in fact, you rarely see a safety being played -- it's all offense. (I think that I heard the commentators say that they recall seeing only 2 safeties the entire tournament).

Although, I also agree that it probably wouldn't hurt to call it the, "US Barbox Open". Because in my mind, for a large and prestigious tournament, the assumption by most would be that it is played on 9-foot tables.

Darren Appleton also did not play in it specifically because he thought that it would not be good practice to play on 7-foot tables before some of the upcoming 9-foot tournaments that he planned to play in. There is probably some validity to this, although, it's also obvious that many pros can adjust quickly between table sizes.

 

[King T]

I dont disagree, but..,

There's no doubt that the best players will still be at the top of the list (although I'm not sure Rory Hendrickson would be in the finals of the US Open 9-ball on 9-foot tables).

What bothers me is that US pool is in the toilet, and this is just another sign that it's not crawling out any time soon.

I don't think CSI has any responsibility to US pool other than doing what their customers, i.e., the league players, want, and the league players almost all play on 7-footers. But let's be real, we know why leagues play on 7-footers: For "practical" reasons. They're cheaper, you can fit more into a room, they're easier so games go quicker and less-skilled players have more fun on them.

So 9' pool rooms close, bars with small tables take over, people get used to small tables, CSI uses small tables for its league events, why put in a new set of bigger tables for the Open events when they've got tons of small tables already there?, pros play more and more on small tables, new and young players who might become pros rarely play on big tables, and pretty soon Americans are about as comfortable on 9-foot tables as they are on snooker tables. That sucks. It's not CSI's fault, but it still sucks.

I don't disagree, but here in Texas there is more land and available space than anywhere in the country and you cant find 9' tables at anyplace in large numbers. In Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Austin the Pool halls are dominated by 8' and 7' tables and this is not a new situation, its been that way for many years.

Most of the tournaments are on 8' tables and the rest are on 7' its hard to get away from the facts.

And the American players are all playing One Pocket and that also takes away from the skill set for rotation, I LOVE One Pocket, but it aint helping the 9 Ball or 10 Ball player win on the world scene.

 

[Cornerman]

It's already been said by Darren a bar box event so close to a world event on big tables makes it to hard to be in top form switching table size ,, Iv heard several pro's say the exact something ,

1

I think I said the same thing, if it wasn't clear. The schedule didn't allow Darren to play on a small table just before the World tourney. He didn't just stay away due to the size. He grew up on small tables.

 

[AtLarge]

in Pi, we call them "junior tables".

And I've heard you don't have any of them in the PI, right?

... Anyone who continues to say how much a joke it is for pool to be played on 7' tables for pros...

For 8-Ball, at least, 9-footers and 7-footers produce about the same stats. Here are the percentages for B&R's and for games ending in one inning:
• 2016 US Open -- 53%, 86%
• 2015 US Open -- 52%, 87%
• 2014 Accu-Stats Make It Happen (9-footers) -- 50%, 85%
• 2014 CSI Invitational (9-footers) -- 54%, 88%

Couldn't help but get a chuckle out of this thread. Can't help but wonder if one would have heard the same comments when the pros went from the "real" 10' tables down to those toy 9' tables a little over half a century ago if they would have had the internet back then.

Maybe. The reduction in playing surface is 20% going from a 10-footer to a 9-footer, and 36% going from a 9-footer to a Diamond 7-footer.

... I believe the central issue is what the events are called and in this case the words "Bar Table" should be inserted right after "U.S Open." ...

How about "Smallfoot" {to go with "Bigfoot" for 10-footers)?

... I can't remember ever seeing a ball potted on a bar table and thinking to myself "wow what a shot!". ...

Now, that's a bit extreme. [I saw lots of "wow" shots.]

There's no doubt that the best players will still be at the top of the list (although I'm not sure Rory Hendrickson would be in the finals of the US Open 9-ball on 9-foot tables). ...

On 9-footers, what's the likelihood that Hendrickson and Bowman would ever finish ahead of all of these: Pagulayan, Bustamante, Morris, Dominguez, Hohmann, Bergman, Deuel, Dechaine, Schmidt, Morra, and Klatt?

[Repeated, from another thread today]

I actually don't mind the pros playing on 7-foot tables. It is still exciting to watch, and in fact, you rarely see a safety being played -- it's all offense. (I think that I heard the commentators say that they recall seeing only 2 safeties the entire tournament). ...

The number of streamed games involving one or more safeties was 9 -- 4.6% of the 197 games. This was way up from last year, when the number was 5 -- 2.1% of the 233 games.

 

[Proofsc]

What people fail to realize is that the BCA National Championships was running concurrently with these opens. Like most of you mentioned it's all about bar table leagues and these events are made bar table so Amatuers can play in the events and play with pros on something they are comfortable with. Almost every tournament is 9ft and while I don't like rotation on 7ft 8 ball can be tough, if you get out of line a hair it changes everything since you have a lot less room than a 9ft. Also with the armature events going on as well, they like to see break and runs over safety battles that occur on the big tables.

 

[AtLarge]

... Also with the armature events going on as well, they like to see break and runs over safety battles that occur on the big tables.

For top pros playing 8-Ball, run-outs are just about as plentiful and safeties just about as rare on 9-footers as on 7-footers.

 

[justadub]

What people fail to realize is that the BCA National Championships was running concurrently with these opens. Like most of you mentioned it's all about bar table leagues and these events are made bar table so Amatuers can play in the events and play with pros on something they are comfortable with. Almost every tournament is 9ft and while I don't like rotation on 7ft 8 ball can be tough, if you get out of line a hair it changes everything since you have a lot less room than a 9ft. Also with the armature events going on as well, they like to see break and runs over safety battles that occur on the big tables.

Remember what Mark Griffin said about the expense.... "The table transportation and light hanging costs far exceed $1,000 per table." (For 9-footers)

They are already gonna have the 7-footers there for the amateur nationals. By utilizing this, he is able to add far more in prize money than he would be able to were he to have to pony up $1000 per 9-foot table.

Would I rather the US Opens be played on 9-footers, of course. I just think folks forget the costs associated with running these big tourneys. I'm guessing if the pro's had a choice between playing on 7-footers for the current prize money or 9-footers for drastically reduced prize money, they'd choose 7-footers. I could be wrong, I often am....I'm married.

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

Regardless of reasons given, you can rest assured. It's All About the Money.

 

[Proofsc]

Remember what Mark Griffin said about the expense.... "The table transportation and light hanging costs far exceed $1,000 per table." (For 9-footers)

They are already gonna have the 7-footers there for the amateur nationals. By utilizing this, he is able to add far more in prize money than he would be able to were he to have to pony up $1000 per 9-foot table.

Would I rather the US Opens be played on 9-footers, of course. I just think folks forget the costs associated with running these big tourneys. I'm guessing if the pro's had a choice between playing on 7-footers for the current prize money or 9-footers for drastically reduced prize money, they'd choose 7-footers. I could be wrong, I often am....I'm married.

I do remember that, I wrote about it in another post and just didn't feel like repeating myself.

 

[Jeff Rosen]

Although I've been playing with family, friends, and girls I dated since my dad first brought me to a pool room in the early 60's, I've only been serious in leagues and tournaments for 3 years now. I've only played on 9 footers. I've even been in two APA leagues in different counties on 9 footers and the only times I played on bar boxes was in the APA tri cup and the Super Billiard Expo in PA. I basically only play 9 Ball and 14.1.
I recently joined a Friday night APA bar league. I thought as a 9 foot player I'd kill them. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I first played a girl SL#3. She slammed the cue on every shot and although never got her object ball in she seemed to continuously slop a ball. Since APA 9 Ball goes by points unlike REAL 9 Ball she killed me. I didn't see it coming. Also on a barbox you don't even have to do safeties. Half the time you're blocked without even trying!!
I don't begrudge anyone who likes bar tables but to me unless it's a 9 footer it's not pool. I've even requested the 10 footer at Steinway when they had it.

 

[saint1]

tables

Regardless of reasons given, you can rest assured. It's All About the Money.

Yes is it is! In my opinion, to set up a couple of 9 foot tables and hang the lights VS a few 7 foot tables cannot be any different? And to suggest that by using these 7 foot tables will generate more interest by the average league player(because that's what they use) and therefore equate to more entrants is ridiculous. The caliber of a non pro player most likely to play in these open events already plays on 9 foot tables. In my area you would have a hard time finding a 7 foot table in league play. They are all 8 foot and 9 foot tables. Also were the total entrants for the 2 open events greatly reduced as well as the whole event? I liked playing the national event for many years but will probably be gone before to long. Sad to say it.

 

[GideonF]

Yes is it is! In my opinion, to set up a couple of 9 foot tables and hang the lights VS a few 7 foot tables cannot be any different? And to suggest that by using these 7 foot tables will generate more interest by the average league player(because that's what they use) and therefore equate to more entrants is ridiculous. The caliber of a non pro player most likely to play in these open events already plays on 9 foot tables. In my area you would have a hard time finding a 7 foot table in league play. They are all 8 foot and 9 foot tables. Also were the total entrants for the 2 open events greatly reduced as well as the whole event? I liked playing the national event for many years but will probably be gone before to long. Sad to say it.

Your post is, first of all, contradictory. You are agreeing with someone saying it is "all about the money" but then discount the things that go into the money equation!

Second, and more importantly, as to the substance (a) Mark has previously explained why it is more expensive to use 9' tables - my recollection is that it is largely due to shipping costs (it is cheaper to ship 7' tables because you can get a lot more of them in a truck or container); and (b) Mark has explained that 7' events generate significantly more PPV buys - not amateur entrants into the pro events.

I have no reason to doubt Mark on either of these statements. And, as I and other have said, he's the promoter - he gets to make the choices. You (and others) are free to not watch his events, and even I suppose to complain about them, but neither is going to magically create more 9' events.

 

[john coloccia]

Gideon, I think the only real gripe is not putting "Barbox" somewhere in the title. Obviously it's not done because it takes prestige away from the event...which says it all right there. There's no reason not to proudly state it and differentiate it from traditional Opens, because it's become different.

 

[saint1]

tables

Well your free to believe whatever you wish. I don't remember reading any explanation of why they cost more, just that they do? Shipping from where? Its in Vegas, CSI is located down the road? Are they stored in Florida?

 

[BRussell]

Gideon, I think the only real gripe is not putting "Barbox" somewhere in the title. Obviously it's not done because it takes prestige away from the event...which says it all right there. There's no reason not to proudly state it and differentiate it from traditional Opens, because it's become different.

I don't care what they call it. I'm ticked off that American pool is taking the cheap and easy way out, and I'm worried that it's going to do long-term damage to Americans' ability to play pool on an international stage.

 

[krelldog]

The same guy that won the 8 ball and 10 ball on bar tables....probably would of won on 9 footers anyway. BTW....I hate bar tables.

 

[9Ballr]

On a 7 footer I can do a lot more of the stuff I wish I could do on a 9 footer.
Draws, breaks, follows, position control is FOR ME much much easier on a 7 footer.
That being said they ALL were playing on 7 footers so the field is level....
BUT watching it takes the 90% of the excitement out of it.....again......for me and
I'm not going to watch this. Nor would I pay to go to the competition.