Why the Best Players Want Tight Pockets

[fastone371]

It's a joke. I'm referring to the idea that there's absolutely nothing that changes the Fargo ratings. Not table size, not pocket size, not even the game. I can almost read the post now from Mike on how the 15 inch pockets had zero affect on the ratings. Let's just say I'm a bit skeptical.

That's the whole point, isn't it? The only thing that should and does affect Fargo ratings are your opponents.

 

[BasementDweller]

That's the whole point, isn't it? The only thing that should and does affect Fargo ratings are your opponents.

Yeah we aren't on the same page on that. I guess there's direct and indirect causation. If the table really had cavernous pockets, the skill level difference between the players would be harder to discern. Therefore, it would indirectly affect their Fargo Ratings.

I was satirizing that these cavernous pockets wouldn't make a difference in regards to FR. They would.

 

[8intheside]

no matter how small or big the pockets are, the better player will usually win in the long Run. I do how think pros should play on smaller than average pocket size.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Speaking as one who is suffering PTSD from the MR 4"ers. I can tell you that the successful players (pros and most notably Chung) played a different game. Nearly no one dared move the CB to any great extent and instead opted for slightly harder pots then normally necessary and played english minimally. Countless times I saw pros play stun/kill shots off the rail rolling across shape lanes rather than the traditional 3 railer into the next shot.

I believe the first rounders got destroyed (myself included) because that we didn't make these adjustments as well or at all, and tried to force our normal style of play. Which normally would have been the status quo.

Knowing this, do you think you would do better next time with those adjustments?

Style of play was partly what I was thinking of too. I recently had a match on in the background with two good amateurs who were just totally dialled in and getting out from everywhere. But they used a lot of English and hit the ball hard. I was thinking that style might work well on the 4.75”+ pockets but felt like it wouldn’t translate to a 4” pocket.

 

[The_JV]

Knowing this, do you think you would do better next time with those adjustments?

I'd like to think so...lol. I would go in prepping for that style of play. Which is something I didn't consider the first go around.

Nearly all my prior experience on diamonds has been pinball like. The Open tables were of course tighter, but also considerably slower then I expected.

 

[Renegade_56]

Regardless the size, for tournament play the pockets should always be the same..

When has anyone ever heard of snooker pockets being too large or too small, yet snooker has the biggest popularity of all cue sports.

 

[pw98]

Yup, I come from this same school of thought. To exaggerate just as an example, if you had to play Filler a race to 9, would you rather play on 4.5" pockets or on a snooker table? I have no chance with 4.5" pockets but there's no telling when he's going to miss on a snooker table. I absolutely believe I would have a better chance on a snooker table.

I learned this early on as a teen by getting my brains beat in playing one pocket getting 9-7 or 10-7 (something like that). The problem was my opponent was stringing big runs together every time I made a mistake. He was out shooting me, not out playing me. I quit and then told him I would play him the same game on the snooker table. He also thought tight pockets would favor him and he laughed as he was screwing his cue back together letting me know what a mistake I was making. I won all my money back and he quit when even.

You obviously haven't seen the filler 8ball match against a top 32 snooker pro on a snooker table.

 

[vjmehra]

Regardless the size, for tournament play the pockets should always be the same..

When has anyone ever heard of snooker pockets being too large or too small, yet snooker has the biggest popularity of all cue sports.

Pretty much every tournament

Its a constant discussion topic between the commentators...and those pockets theoretically are identical!!!

 

[soyale]

You obviously haven't seen the filler 8ball match against a top 32 snooker pro on a snooker table.

link?

 

[skip100]

 

[Lawnboy77]

If you had a chance to play the best player in the world a race to ten, and you got paid $1000 for every game you won in 9-ball, would you rather have loose pockets or tight pockets?

You’d want them tight. You stand less chance of winning any game against the best player in the world if the pockets are loose. You increase your chance to get to the table the tighter the pockets go.

That’s true with anything else as well in pool. The further you get from ideal conditions, the more it affects the better player. The more ideal the conditions are, the more the advantage the better player can take with his skills.

Exactly! It’s the same with horse racing. I always like betting on the long shot on a real muddy track. Anyone can win in real muddy footing.

 

[Bobkitty]

For shape, a great pool player takes the pocket in 1,2,3 or in loose pockets 1.2.3.4.5. This sequence of pocket space determines shape and speed of the ball. My teaching pro always determines the "side" of the pocket he wants to hit. I only do this on short shots but he does this on ALL shots. It's so hard to get into this mind set but it is so advisable to try to do so. It helps on concentrate.

 

[BasementDweller]

Wow. Thanks. I haven't seen this.

 

[Renegade_56]

Pretty much every tournament

Its a constant discussion topic between the commentators...and those pockets theoretically are identical!!!

What are you talking about, I never hear anyone complain about snooker pockets. Actually, never heard of the size they are at any given venue Or, what size they are supposed to be.

 

[garczar]

What are you talking about, I never hear anyone complain about snooker pockets. Actually, never heard of the size they are at any given venue Or, what size they are supposed to be.

Club snooker tables are normally 3.5" corners, tournament tables are tighter.

 

[Renegade_56]

Club snooker tables are normally 3.5" corners, tournament tables are tighter.

I know this,,,,,,,,, what I meant was that I've never heard any talk about pocket size during watching competitions.

 

[straightline]

For shape, a great pool player takes the pocket in 1,2,3 or in loose pockets 1.2.3.4.5. This sequence of pocket space determines shape and speed of the ball. My teaching pro always determines the "side" of the pocket he wants to hit. I only do this on short shots but he does this on ALL shots. It's so hard to get into this mind set but it is so advisable to try to do so. It helps on concentrate.

To me, and note this is just fact and no allusion to my shooting ability, I'm not even a player. Cheating pockets is a function of where you shoot the ball and not the pocket. A shot ball stays the same size and on one vector. The pocket stays stationary and the same size.

IOW, you want one side of the pocket, shoot _that_ shot. You want center pocket or other side, you shoot the appropriate one of _those_. If one takes the bother, it's easy to see the plus or minus in even "straight in" shots. It's the refinement to this degree - pun intended, that's vital to the advancement of players.

Pockets that exceed my error margins and indeed most player's margins, have no place in pro competition.

 

[vjmehra]

What are you talking about, I never hear anyone complain about snooker pockets. Actually, never heard of the size they are at any given venue Or, what size they are supposed to be.

In the UK we get virtually every tournament covered live and believe me, there is discussion about the pockets almost every time.

Of course the pockets are supposed to be identical, as there is a template, however this is what creates the discussion topic. Despite theoretically being identical they never seem to be (then the discussion also turns to atmospheric conditions, cloth etc. its quite interesting if you are curious).

If you can, check out Neal Foulds or Alan McManus, they talk about it quite a lot (although much of it may be behind the Discovery Plus paywall).

 

[skogstokig]

In the UK we get virtually every tournament covered live and believe me, there is discussion about the pockets almost every time.

Of course the pockets are supposed to be identical, as there is a template, however this is what creates the discussion topic. Despite theoretically being identical they never seem to be (then the discussion also turns to atmospheric conditions, cloth etc. its quite interesting if you are curious).

If you can check, out Neal Foulds or Alan McManus, they talk about it quite a lot (although much of it may be behind the Discovery Plus paywall).

that invitational in china some months ago had noticably looser pockets. in other events i think it's mostly different humidity/table heating/lighting that explains it

 

[fastone371]

Yeah we aren't on the same page on that. I guess there's direct and indirect causation. If the table really had cavernous pockets, the skill level difference between the players would be harder to discern. Therefore, it would indirectly affect their Fargo Ratings.

I was satirizing that these cavernous pockets wouldn't make a difference in regards to FR. They would.

Its hard to tell because it seems so many out there dont trust Fargo, instead they believe the TD or a shortstop who says "yeah, that guy is a B+" after seeing a guy play a single match.