Why wouldn't Barry Behrman agree to the ABP request?

[justnum]

The players gave Barry a chance to sell them on his confidence, all he had to do was agree to a request about prior disclosure on the prize fund. Barry wasn't confident enough to agree to the request.

As a business person it happens people aren't confident enough in their business to close the deal on high profile clients because of minor details. Barry is a textbook example of someone that couldn't close the deal because of a minor detail. It is so minor that internally Barry would have to check his books prior to the event and ensure he has funds to payout, he would do it anyway (assuming he plans on paying out in full).

As a business decision Barry messed up. He had his reputation on the line because the ABP confronted his events specifically, instead of confidently selling his event, he backed off. The only people that back off in a deal are those that understand the risks involved and can't manage them. Barry didn't exercise enough confidence to acknowledge those risks and agree to the ABP request.

 

[sammylane12]

when is the last time ANYONE has ever heard of a tennis player or a golfer or a bowler worried about the prize fund? Never. These concerns do not materialize out of thin air. When the very best players in the world (not just Americans) boycott the biggest event on American soil the light should come on. They are just making all this up for the hell of it?

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I think the ABP is making an error.

Barry needs the event to pay for the event (and some years doesn't get there; hence, owing some players).

To the best of my knowledge, everyone eventually gets paid from the US Open. Maybe not when they want to, but they get paid.

To RAM a letter like that basically kills the event. So, the players in their SUPER wisdom, basically say -- "Do it ____ way or we're not playing."

In the meantime, the players could NEVER find an event that could post that cash up front, prior to collecting the revenue from the event. So in essence, they're tough-talking they're way into working at Walmart.

Earth to pool pros (not business pros) >>>>>>>>>>>

There's no such thing as a pool promoter in today's world who has $50k to post prior to collecting revenue from events. There are NO BIG SPONSORS in pool --- this isn't Wimbleton or the Masters. The money you guys are playing for comes from entrance fees, seating/admission, vendor booths, small sponsors (if any) and whatever added money the promoter can put together. ALL of the above is usually collected just prior and during the event.

I hope the legal counsel of the ABP re-evaluates his advice and brings everyone back down to earth. The concept is good--- however, the timing is terrible, the strategy is poorly thought out (to say the least), and this action is against the well-being of the pros livelihood. Better to be paid a little late from a well-intentioned promoter (like Barry) than to not have an event at all.

Anyways, carry on.... the pros know more than I do. G'luck with the boycott everyone. :thumbup:

 

[JustPlay]

Doesn't Barry do this year after year? And are the best players in the world telling Barry, Enough is Enough! Does Barry ever learn a lesson from the previous year(s) where he "doesnt have enough money" to pay the players?

Maybe he should have the government bail him out

Times are tough. Scale back the prize funds to accomodate the ALL THE PLAYERS being paid in FULL!

Without the players you have NO event!

 

[Underclocked]

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=8892

 

[justnum]

http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=8892

That article addresses that the pool industry is suffering from hard economic times. It provided biographical information that Barry wrestled in high school.

It doesn't address why he denied the request of the ABP. It doesn't even acknowledge the request by the ABP. It is written for the purpose of explaining how great Barry has been in the past and all the sacrifice he has endured for the benefit of players and fans.

It is not a letter debating the management of prize money or disclosure of prize money. It just reiterates that Barry has done a lot to keep his event going, and hopes the event keeps going strong with or without the support of the ABP.

 

[JCIN]

That article addresses that the pool industry is suffering from hard economic times. It provided biographical information that Barry wrestled in high school.

It doesn't address why he denied the request of the ABP. It doesn't even acknowledge the request by the ABP. It is written for the purpose of explaining how great Barry has been in the past and all the sacrifice he has endured for the benefit of players and fans.

It is not a letter debating the management of prize money or disclosure of prize money. It just reiterates that Barry has done a lot to keep his event going, and hopes the event keeps going strong with or without the support of the ABP.

While I see you read the message I don't think you understood it. In between the lines it very politely said "I was here before you and I'll be here after you are gone."

Why the hell do I even reply to this guy I never know. It bothers me.

 

[justnum]

The request by the ABP doesn't give the players anything more than what the prize fund states. The ABP demand isn't changing how the players get paid, the order they get paid, or when they get paid. It is just asking for an advance notice on the status of the prize money.

The ABP players are taking the bullet by not participating in the event. Barry hasn't lost anything if players don't want to play. The players gain nothing by Barry acknowledging the request. Barry gains the players by taking up the ABP request. The situation is only a win for Barry, all he has to do is close the deal.

If someone claims to sell a lottery ticket for a certain amount of money (player entry fee) then it is reasonable to ask prove you have the money. The moral hazard of the situation is if a tournament organizer runs an event, scores profits but under reports it to the players and delays payment for various purposes. The ABP may not have taken an agreeable first step, but a first step gets the ball rolling.

It is clear Barry is committed to reiterating his reputation and long term investment into the Open. He got it to work and he will keep it working the way he has always done.

 

[Chris_Lynch]

I feel for both sides here.

The ABP wants to protect their players from being out expenses for a month or two before they get paid and I totally understand and support that. Prize money should be guaranteed in writing.

Barry has stated before that the attendance matters in raising money for the prize fund. He simply doesn't have the whole thing at the start of the event. Production costs for this event are most likely very, very high and to come up with that plus the 75k added is probably too much for him to do in advance.

I sincerely hope that the ABP and Barry (and Shannon) can come to an agreement here so that the players and the fans will be happy. If the ABP players don't play I imagine a significant number of fans will stay home. Maybe Barry can guarantee that all players that cash will receive all of the money before they leave the event if they are 65-96, half of the money from 17-64 and the top 16 players get 25% in cash at the event. All players will also receive checks for the remainder that will be good for 2 weeks after the event.

I am sure that the ABP has put a lot of thought into this and certainly all of the players making the decisions are costing themselves a rather large payday by boycotting the US Open. Their decisions are certainly based on their previous experience at the tournament. I hope they can come to some sort of agreement that allows their players to play in the event.

Good luck to both sides. I hope it works out.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Nothing good is going to come from this.

Barry could say, hey guys, thanks for appreciating my efforts all these years, I don't need the aggravation any longer. Have fun finding someone else to run this.

The ABP will be scratching their heads saying,"WT.... just happened"?

Barry might decide to ban any player who's name is on the list. You will never participate in any event I sponsor, ever.

Very bad timing on the ABPs part. The best thing that could have happened is the ABP should have arranged a sit down with Barry and discuss their concerns. Maybe offered to help Barry run the Open instead of letting one person do all the work. Of course we know that wouldn't happen. Get off your butts and help instead of complaining. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

I wouldn't blame Barry if he tanked the whole thing right now but I doubt he will do that. He will run it no matter what just to prove a point.

Good luck Barry.

 

[Neil]

................

 

[enzo]

wow, all i can say is if i had to design a set of events that could SOMEHOW disrail pool any more, this may be something id come up with. i mean we have like one solid event a year, the us open. now, as i see it, that is in serious jeopardy. if i was barry, and i had done all this for the players over the years, id be ready about now just to throw my hands up in the air on the entire project... maybe financially he cant do that until next year, well see. we all know pool events arent money makers.... im sure barry could spend his time in a much more lucrative manner. imo, we have reached a new low.

 

[ShootingArts]

yep!

Maybe you ought to read a little more. The money is only part of what they are asking. They also want rules changes, seeding, ect.

In their press release it is all about the money. A little checking shows that they want to run the show too. I have owned businesses most of the time since the sixties and my standard reply to people telling me how to run my business was to say nothing and just stick my hand out palm up and wait. When they finally realized that was the only reply they were going to get they would ask what I meant.

"Buy the business then you can run it!"

There are two catches to the player's timing. One, the players have next to zero real negotiating strength. The second catch is that Barry is in probably in no position to meet the demands concerning money, he has had to get paid so other people can get paid in the past, and he is very unlikely to tolerate being bullied by demands concerning the format of the tournament. In short, the players picked the wrong target at the wrong time and went about achieving their objectives in the wrong way.

I can't see anything good coming of this. Aside from anything else failing here will strike a crushing blow to the players organization and I see zero chance of them winning.

Hu

 

[justnum]

Barry's customers are the pool players, they rely on him to organize and produce a major pool tournament. At this point in time the players or the customers want better service, and they outlined how he can deliver it.

The economy is changing and so is the market. Barry maybe locked into old world thinking and that is good products stand the test of time. Instead of updating his product, he chose to keep it as is.

The players have transitioned from being happy customers to customers with demands. It is common for customers to demand new, different or better services. But it Barry isn't interested in placing effort into modernizing his tournament.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

It is common for customers to demand new, different or better services.

And anyone who has owned a business or two will attest to the fact that at some point in time in your owner, customer relationship, some customers become more trouble than they are worth and then, you send them packing down the road to the next business.

See, done deal, if you think that you can get a better deal, better service from someone else, don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. Bye.

Has anyone thought about the possibility of Barry having to put up a certain amount of his own money as a front? A healthy deposit on renting the venue, displays, his own time and fuel money running around making arrangements, getting food vendors and others to commit, etc.

I don't think the players are in any position to start making demands on Barry.

Part of a winning strategy is choosing your battle wisely, the time and arena in which it will be fought. Failing that and you have pretty much zero to gain.

In this case, I see the battle being lost before it has even started.

 

[justnum]

And anyone who has owned a business or two will attest to the fact that at some point in time in your owner, customer relationship, some customers become more trouble than they are worth and then, you send them packing down the road to the next business.

See, done deal, if you think that you can get a better deal, better service from someone else, don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. Bye.

Has anyone thought about the possibility of Barry having to put up a certain amount of his own money as a front? A healthy deposit on renting the venue, displays, his own time and fuel money running around making arrangements, getting food vendors and others to commit, etc.

I don't think the players are in any position to start making demands on Barry.

Part of a winning strategy is choosing your battle wisely, the time and arena in which it will be fought. Failing that and you have pretty much zero to gain.

In this case, I see the battle being lost before it has even started.

That is true. In this economy I don't think anyone is looking forward to losing past customers, and Barry is losing customers because of his lack of procedural updates. Nor do I think players want to sacrifice a chance to win US Open prize money. Businesses fail when they can't keep up with the demand. Sure other players can show up, but will they attract the crowds Barry hopes for.

With the new business models like pay per view televised matches players might adventure into selling their services differently. With the internet working the way it does instead of players doing exhibition or charity matches, they can also sell internet streams or DVDs like the new billiard promoter competition does to help the charities they promote like the billiards players in wheelchairs association.

As for Barry's bottomline and putting up his own money and losing money, that is entirely up to him. He can choose to produce an event or not, it is his money.

 

[classiccues]

The ABP issued a press release stating a dispute over an issue about prior disclosure on the prize money which motivated them to formally state a boycott of Barry Behrman events.

The issue is about Barry not agreeing to the ABP request of prior disclosure of the prize money. For many business people large events require lots of preparation. Barry might be too busy to deal with something as small as proving to players he has the prize money. Another possible case is Barry runs a business and if his word is not good enough then the players can participate in other events. And the least likely situation is Barry doesn't want to show he doesn't have the prize money. What is the most likely situation is he is afraid that if he does prove he has the money the players might try to steal it from him.

In either situation regardless of what I think Barry or the ABP should do, players are unhappy and Barry is unhappy. The fans miss out because of this management dispute about prize money. And players that compete in the open won't get their normal shot of proving themselves against a touring pro.

If the prize fund was in the bank prior to an event, then it would be as simple as showing someone a bank statement to prove the funds are available. But the situation is more complicated then what the press release makes it out to be. And that is a dispute between how Barry manages players before a tournament and the players he manages has not been resolved and both groups are not working at resolving it.

OK.. devils advocate...

Can Barry get a guarantee that the best players won't quit mid-match because they didn't get a call, that the players won't get a big side bet and dump therefore skewing the "competitive balance" of the tournament, can the players ACT like the pro's they are portraying themselves as in competitive play?

Listen you have to know that there are some of these guys that if they had a 12 event schedule with a monster payoff in a year ending finale and that finale was "seeded", you could bet your a$$ there would be major manipulation of the seeding by dumps and whatever other measure could gain an advantage.

Lets not put halo's and angel wings on everyone now...

JV

 

[justnum]

OK.. devils advocate...

Can Barry get a guarantee that the best players won't quit mid-match because they didn't get a call, that the players won't get a big side bet and dump therefore skewing the "competitive balance" of the tournament, can the players ACT like the pro's they are portraying themselves as?

JV

That negotiation should be taking place between Barry and the ABP.

I won't act like a go between, but Barry doesn't seem as interested as you are in discussing trade-offs.

 

[jmurphy]

I think the ABP is making an error.

Barry needs the event to pay for the event (and some years doesn't get there; hence, owing some players).

To the best of my knowledge, everyone eventually gets paid from the US Open. Maybe not when they want to, but they get paid.

To RAM a letter like that basically kills the event. So, the players in their SUPER wisdom, basically say -- "Do it ____ way or we're not playing."

In the meantime, the players could NEVER find an event that could post that cash up front, prior to collecting the revenue from the event. So in essence, they're tough-talking they're way into working at Walmart.

Earth to pool pros (not business pros) >>>>>>>>>>>

There's no such thing as a pool promoter in today's world who has $50k to post prior to collecting revenue from events. There are NO BIG SPONSORS in pool --- this isn't Wimbleton or the Masters. The money you guys are playing for comes from entrance fees, seating/admission, vendor booths, small sponsors (if any) and whatever added money the promoter can put together. ALL of the above is usually collected just prior and during the event.

I hope the legal counsel of the ABP re-evaluates his advice and brings everyone back down to earth. The concept is good--- however, the timing is terrible, the strategy is poorly thought out (to say the least), and this action is against the well-being of the pros livelihood. Better to be paid a little late from a well-intentioned promoter (like Barry) than to not have an event at all.

Anyways, carry on.... the pros know more than I do. G'luck with the boycott everyone. :thumbup:

Barry has a lot of assets he could easily get a short term loan each year to post the money. That man has the biggest pool room in the country Q-Masters now has 79 tables I believe and someone link that can't post 50K? Give me a break.

Barry only has himself to blame for this. He has multiple times not paid off players at the end of the tourn.

 

[classiccues]

That negotiation should be taking place between Barry and the ABP.

I won't act like a go between, but Barry doesn't seem as interested as you are in discussing trade-offs.

Yeah 15 attempts at a call in.. yeah he doesn't seem interested...

JV