WPBA Pre-Allison
- Thread starter BayGene
- Start date
anybody watch the Mary Kinniston/Peg Ledman match sunday morning on ESPN Classic? didnt really think it was a clinic...........
DCP
DCP
Johnnyt said:
Gerda and Jeanette were already there in the tournament in question. Not sure about Helena.
But I agree. Loree Jon Jones had a very good stroke and good cue ball, but it doesn't seem like any of the others were really in control of their 9-ball game, playing some bad patterns, leaving poor angles, and making some amateurish mistakes. I think the advent of the women with snooker backgrounds really made them start taking a more disciplined approach to the game to try to compete with the machine-like execution abilities that Allison brought.
-Andrew
Ah yes, LJJ. I loved to watch her...play pool. One of the few humans that look far better in person than on camera.Andrew Manning said:
Some of those Nikki Bennish/Mary Kenniston matches on ESPN were excruciating (the shows where they had men & women playing side-by-side on two tables). I don't think those players held up well under the TV lights...I want to believe those particular women played better than they showed on those TV shows.
Female players
I agree and that's why the pre Allison players don't show up in the winners circle any more. The top players now seem to have taken women's pool to a new level and the only pre Allison player that I think could play with the present top players is Jean Balukas. Jean was so much better than the other women when she was in her prime that she actually started playing on the men's pro tour. She didn't win on the men's tour, but she beat a lot of male pro players.BayGene said:
Although Gerda and Helena may not have played that particular Gordon's tournament (those were invitation only), they were playing the WPBA tour consistently in the 90s pre-Allison. (Gerda won the first Classic Tour stop in San Francisco in 1993.) Also Tiffany Nelson was playing some before Allison as well (albeit as a teenager -- she got 2nd place in the WPBA Orlando Classic in 1994 at the tender age of 14).Johnnyt said:
Jeanette started in 1991, I believe, shortly after I did.
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BayGene said:
Obviously! Allison permanently raised the bar, and only Karen Corr, with nearly 25 WPBA titles in the Allison era, has proven up to the challenge of playing at that level consistently. With 75 titles between them, they've left everybody in the dust.
The infusion of new talent in the last few years has made the WPBA tour stronger than ever before, and WPBA pool is, consequently, a better product than ever before.
Do you think you would beat either of them?DrCue'sProtege said:anybody watch the Mary Kinniston/Peg Ledman match sunday morning on ESPN Classic? didnt really think it was a clinic...........
DCP
unknownpro
I agree, I recorded it and stopped watching it half way. It was excruciating to watch.DrCue'sProtege said:anybody watch the Mary Kinniston/Peg Ledman match sunday morning on ESPN Classic? didnt really think it was a clinic...........
DCP
IMO, I believe that it is common for a player to play up/down to whatever level of competition they are faced with. If Loree Jon Jones would have played (in her prime) in the Allison Fisher/Karen Corr era, I believe she would have won her share of tournaments. She was that good. She had a knack of coming up with fantastic shots when the game/match was on the line. I believe that she, and maybe a couple of others (Ewa and Gerda for starters) in her era would simply have gotten better due to the stiffer competition.
Maniac
Maniac
What year was this played? If you listen you hear the Miz telling Ewa Mataya about his new "short jump cue". It sounds like its the first time she'd ever heard of one.DrCue'sProtege said:anybody watch the Mary Kinniston/Peg Ledman match sunday morning on ESPN Classic? didnt really think it was a clinic...........
DCP
My opinion - The WPBT fields are far deeper and far more talented than in the pre Allison days. It's not even close.
Pre Allison - 48 (or fewer) players, of whom maybe 12-16 played fairly good, another 12-16 played average and the rest were cannon fodder.
Post Allison - The level of competition gets stronger every year, and has for ten years. Today - 64 players, 16-20 play run out 9-Ball, another 16-20 maybe one speed under the top players, 12-16 who play one more speed down, but are capable of winning matches, and finally a handful of players who have no chance beyond winning a match or two.
The second tier players of today's WPBT would be contenders for titles in the pre Allison days.
Pre Allison - 48 (or fewer) players, of whom maybe 12-16 played fairly good, another 12-16 played average and the rest were cannon fodder.
Post Allison - The level of competition gets stronger every year, and has for ten years. Today - 64 players, 16-20 play run out 9-Ball, another 16-20 maybe one speed under the top players, 12-16 who play one more speed down, but are capable of winning matches, and finally a handful of players who have no chance beyond winning a match or two.
The second tier players of today's WPBT would be contenders for titles in the pre Allison days.
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DrCue'sProtege said:anybody watch the Mary Kinniston/Peg Ledman match sunday morning on ESPN Classic? didnt really think it was a clinic...........
DCP
i was impressed with peg ledman's play
Andrew Manning said:
When Jeanette came to Hardtimes in Bellflower to stay, she soon hooked up with Helena. They would practice and gamble with the boys and enter the local tourney's and the WPBA. Awhile later Gerda and then Allison hooked up and practiced at the Hardtimes and Southbay Pool, played the local tourney's and the WPBA. Also Aileen Pippin hooked up with Jennifer Chin and they would practice, gamble with the boys, play the local tourneys and WPBA.
Aileen and Jenn did quite well gambling on the road with Marcus.
Those were the best of times at the Hardtimes - Mark Tadd, Parica, Ernesto, Ron Rosas, Morro, Tang, King Kong, Francisco; then Efren, Luat, Kieth etc..
Of course there is much more depth, there are a lot more women playing pool! A large part due to the exposure the sport has gotten on TV and from players like Jeanette who have given mass exposure to the sport. The WPBA has stayed unified and strongly directed, while the men have stumbled and failed at most attempts to have a tour.
While playing in the Pro Event in Florida, I noticed at one point, three tables going on at one time that featured teenagers! The future of the WPBA is more than bright, there is so much young talent out there. It is very exciting to me. I myself did not start playing till 11 years ago, I remember seeing this beautiful asian woman on ESPN and just thought wow, I want to do that. Though, I never thought I would find myself competing at this level or any level really. Since I knew nothing of leagues or local tournaments when I first started playing.
In our country, most people still think of pool as something men do, in some dark, smokey underworld... while in many asian and european countries it is a respected sport and kids are training and competing with no regard to gender.
The addition of a 64 player field just a few years ago, is a clear sign of the sports growth. It is an ever growing dynamic but credit must be given to those early pioneers who got the ball(s) rolling and etched out a tour that has become the most successful to date in the sport.
While playing in the Pro Event in Florida, I noticed at one point, three tables going on at one time that featured teenagers! The future of the WPBA is more than bright, there is so much young talent out there. It is very exciting to me. I myself did not start playing till 11 years ago, I remember seeing this beautiful asian woman on ESPN and just thought wow, I want to do that. Though, I never thought I would find myself competing at this level or any level really. Since I knew nothing of leagues or local tournaments when I first started playing.
In our country, most people still think of pool as something men do, in some dark, smokey underworld... while in many asian and european countries it is a respected sport and kids are training and competing with no regard to gender.
The addition of a 64 player field just a few years ago, is a clear sign of the sports growth. It is an ever growing dynamic but credit must be given to those early pioneers who got the ball(s) rolling and etched out a tour that has become the most successful to date in the sport.
true!
most of the womens matches on tv are excruciating to watch if they don't involve a handful of players! the level of play has went up alot since the pre Allison days, but it still is far in comparison from many open tournaments. if you get below the top 32 players most of those girls play pretty bad still. but that won't last too long there are new players popping up everywhere! in another couple of years i would expect the WPBA to be very strong!..........Jeremykilojo420 said:
Johnnyt said:
I've been watching the Gordons events as well. I would say the most glaring difference is the safety play. Back in the 90's they weren't locking them up nearly as well as today. It almost seemed that they didn't take safety play all that seriously back then. Many of the safety attempts seemed very casual, as if the player at the table was essentially resigned to giving up control.
I also saw more "kick hard and hope to get lucky" shots instead of safety attempts. Perhaps for the same reason. Even the announcers addressed this. It's almost unheard of today.
Note that my entire exposure to pro pool is on ESPN, so that's the basis for my comments. Things may be very different in the non-televised world.
Tom