The Sweetest Thing About Playing In The Dcc, Is For Those Who Have Never Played On A Diamond,is To Get Introduced To The Table Of The ''millinium''.....the ''infestation'' Of The Diamond May Not Be In Every State Of The Usa Or On Every Continent, But It Gives All Of The Various Players From Every Part Of The World That Come To The ''dcc' An Opportunity To Play On Them....what Is Your Table Of Choice ?
Your Opinion Of Dcc's Diamond Tables
- Thread starter RON GEARY
- Start date
Diamond Tables
I play at home on my Diamond nine foot pro. It replaced my seven foot Diamond pro. I totally agree with your observation. They are great tables. Tough but fair and they give up no "gimmes"
Cross Side Larry
RON GEARY said:
I play at home on my Diamond nine foot pro. It replaced my seven foot Diamond pro. I totally agree with your observation. They are great tables. Tough but fair and they give up no "gimmes"
Cross Side Larry
I'm from the Lou. area, and all I play on are Diamond tables. They are the BEST. If you can play banks on a 9' Diamond you can play on anything... Most decent places to play in Louisville all have Diamond tables. Bankshot Billiards on Market St. in downtown Lou. keeps theirs in very good shape. Check them out when you come to town.
I have learned to like Diamond tables and have an oversized 4x8 at home. I still prefer a Gold Crown because that is what I learned to play on, but every place around here has Diamonds so I had to learn to play on them. Don't get me wrong, they are great tables, but it is a different game playing on a diamond.
I agree with bankshot76, if you can bank on a Diamond you can bank on any table.
I agree with bankshot76, if you can bank on a Diamond you can bank on any table.
RON GEARY said:
The Diamond smart tables play great. They are much more difficult than all but the tightest of Gold Crowns that I've played on. As a matter of fact there has been only one GC that was purposely set up with smaller pockets, in general for one pocket play. The Diamonds at Derby where set up to about 4.375" WD and the facings are parallel to each other. Most GC's have the facings narrow in the back and wider in the front of the pocket. All of the tables I played on were banking shorter than I was used to, most people agreed. Greg Sullivan has made a super table and the pros and top players love to gamble on these tables.
My personal feelings are that I would not want to play exclusively on Diamonds that play that tough. I equate it to a low handicap (4-8) golfer who normally plays from the back tees having to play from the pro tees. I've played Oak Hill CC in Rochester NY. It is always rated in the top 25 by Golf Digest and has hosted US Opens, PGA Championships, Ryder Cup; I think you get the point that it is a special course. When I've played, from the member's tees it was a wonderful experience and a pleasure. I would not even attempt to play from the pro tees. This same analogy is how the Diamond tables play. You have to hit the ball perfect. I enjoy practicing on my table (GC with 4.625" pockets); I was frustrated on the Diamonds. Too much mental effort for me. My roommate down there disagreed. He believes it would make me a better player. I suppose it would if I was having fun while practicing, but missing is not fun for me.
Again, this is just my opinion and I must reiterate that the tables are well made, good looking and capable of being set up to play easier.
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i played in the action room a bit on saturday, the 5th.
It was definitely different.
there was no room for error.
I dogged alot of shots I really shouldnt have.
I also hear that new cloth and balls play differently, and this was my first time playing with such.
couple that in with being a little nervous with a bunch of new people watching you play... Im hoping a room here will add a diamond or three like they had at the derby. what size were those exactly (pockets and table dimensions)?
thanks
It was definitely different.
there was no room for error.
I dogged alot of shots I really shouldnt have.
I also hear that new cloth and balls play differently, and this was my first time playing with such.
couple that in with being a little nervous with a bunch of new people watching you play... Im hoping a room here will add a diamond or three like they had at the derby. what size were those exactly (pockets and table dimensions)?
thanks
Diamond tables are quite different from Brunswick Gold Crowns. For one, they use Artemis K55 profile rail rubber, not K66 as do GC's. The profile is the angle in degrees the rubber is slanted... for a crude graphic, this might be a 66 degree profile, with ball nearby: >0 and here is a 55 degree profile: )0 crude, yes.
The point being, IMO, Diamond tables bank way shorter than do GC's, and many of my shots in addition to coming up short started backing away from the pocket noticeably. I believe more of the collision-induced english on the object balls, especially reverse or hold-up types, transfers on Diamonds than GC's, due to the rail profile, possibly also being a softer rubber... the balls sink in deeper and/or more surface area of the ball/rail is grabbed, so more ball spin gets converted to angle out of the rail. That's my theory and I am sticking to it.
Practically speaking most banks needed to be overcut and whacked to take out the spin factors. 3-rail banks came up 1 to 1.5 diamonds short... bouncy rubber again shortening them up. Diamonds play good, but there are some definite adjustments needed if your experience is primarily GC's.
The point being, IMO, Diamond tables bank way shorter than do GC's, and many of my shots in addition to coming up short started backing away from the pocket noticeably. I believe more of the collision-induced english on the object balls, especially reverse or hold-up types, transfers on Diamonds than GC's, due to the rail profile, possibly also being a softer rubber... the balls sink in deeper and/or more surface area of the ball/rail is grabbed, so more ball spin gets converted to angle out of the rail. That's my theory and I am sticking to it.
Practically speaking most banks needed to be overcut and whacked to take out the spin factors. 3-rail banks came up 1 to 1.5 diamonds short... bouncy rubber again shortening them up. Diamonds play good, but there are some definite adjustments needed if your experience is primarily GC's.
I think the tables banked very weird and different from one table to the next. I'm used to playing on a used Diamond from the DCC and the ones at the Derby were very different! When you see champion bank players missing easy banks in the side that they would make 90% on the time, you know something is wrong!
I appreciate the Diamond Billiard Company sponsoring the Derby City Classic, but I watched many players miss shots due to roll out on the tables near the short rail pockets. If the ball rolled slowly, it would roll out about an inch when approaching the pocket. Maybe this is due to leveling problems or to the new fabric, I don't know. I do know Bustamante missed two shots in a one one-pocket match due to this roll out. His opponent missed one for the same reason. I saw several other players on different tables have the same problem.
hi
the reason they bank short and the rails are to bouncy is because of the dirty balls and cloth.trust me if you vacuum the cloth and polish or even wax the balls they will bank plenty long and the table plays much better for about 3-4 hours.
the reason they bank short and the rails are to bouncy is because of the dirty balls and cloth.trust me if you vacuum the cloth and polish or even wax the balls they will bank plenty long and the table plays much better for about 3-4 hours.
I love our new Diamond
I purchased a new 9 ft Diamond Pro for our new One Pocket table last August. It has been great. Will there be rolls? Ummm....OF COURSE. Every table on the planet will get dirty, will need adjustments, will change due to temperature and humidity of the room. Smokers play hell with tables and the way they play. Cloth gets sticky, wont move right and causes funny rolls all over the place. Its a constant struggle to keep all tables playing well in a pool room. If I could afford it I would add another 4 Diamonds in a heartbeat. I think they elevate your game with the tough pockets. I liked the Gold Crown 3s but the GC4s are a nightmare with keeping level with the new leveling system. We have worked on other pool rooms and they need adjustment every couple months. That is frustrating for a room owner. Diamond has created the best tourny in the world with the DCC. There will always be problems and adjustments from year to year in the way things are run and how tables are set up. No tournament will ever be perfect, and no table will ever be perfect, but at least Diamond is closer than anyone else on both counts. Greg Sullivan should be applauded for his effort to change the sport of pool to make it better.
I purchased a new 9 ft Diamond Pro for our new One Pocket table last August. It has been great. Will there be rolls? Ummm....OF COURSE. Every table on the planet will get dirty, will need adjustments, will change due to temperature and humidity of the room. Smokers play hell with tables and the way they play. Cloth gets sticky, wont move right and causes funny rolls all over the place. Its a constant struggle to keep all tables playing well in a pool room. If I could afford it I would add another 4 Diamonds in a heartbeat. I think they elevate your game with the tough pockets. I liked the Gold Crown 3s but the GC4s are a nightmare with keeping level with the new leveling system. We have worked on other pool rooms and they need adjustment every couple months. That is frustrating for a room owner. Diamond has created the best tourny in the world with the DCC. There will always be problems and adjustments from year to year in the way things are run and how tables are set up. No tournament will ever be perfect, and no table will ever be perfect, but at least Diamond is closer than anyone else on both counts. Greg Sullivan should be applauded for his effort to change the sport of pool to make it better.
Kevin said:
Kevin,
Gold Crowns use K-55 rubber.
Well
All -
Sorry to sound negative, but I like the older Diamonds that they used to play on. The were like works of art.
The "Professional" tables with the writing on the sides, are well, well, just not attractive.
Maybe someone can line me out, I really liked the ones they used to play on and the ones at the Bankshot downtown.
Are those still available? The are/were beutiful tables.
Ken
All -
Sorry to sound negative, but I like the older Diamonds that they used to play on. The were like works of art.
The "Professional" tables with the writing on the sides, are well, well, just not attractive.
Maybe someone can line me out, I really liked the ones they used to play on and the ones at the Bankshot downtown.
Are those still available? The are/were beutiful tables.
Ken
PoolTable911 said:
OK, I stand corrected... what do the diamonds use and where are the key differences in your opinion then? Could it just be that the rubber on diamonds is newer and softer, while GC's tend to be ancient with relatively dried out rubber?
Kevin said:
Hi Kevin,
New 9ft Diamonds come with Artemis Intercontinental K55. Artemis in my opinion, are the best cushions out there. They are very true and consistent. It could be that some of the Gold Crowns you play on have cushions that are getting hard. I have worked on GC I's with rubber that plays like new. I have also worked on GC III's that have rubber that turned to rock. It is a crap shot. You should ask this question in the Talk to a Mechanic section. It is a good question and I am sure you will get alot of response. Take it easy....
Kevin said:
At first glance Diamonds have 5 rail bolts per rail were brunswick uses 3 bolts evenly spaced about were the diamonds are.
The more rigid the rail the truer the bank less movement more accuracy.
both tables use roughly a 6" wide rail made of Popluar wood Brunswick uses a Formica type top cover and Diamond cover their rails with roughly
a 1\4"+ thickness of Laminated Veener probably birch I would guess giving it more Ridgedness for solid banks.
Older Brunswick if they still have the original true art gum rail rubber from monarch or raybesto's then you have the best rubber ever made but now it's old they stopped making it. In europe some places are makig it again but very very expensive ao everyone as been using the Artemis cusion's which are the best for under $300 a set.
Both tables have a great design and a very solid next to now flex anywere on the table and Diamond uses 30mm slate to give it even more solidity.
I love all my Gold Crowns I have owned but the next time I sell my Gold Crown I'm going to get a Diamond Table with the 3 piece slate so it's easier to sell or move,1 piece slate are a royal painin the arse to touch let alone left.
Try what John said earlier keep your balls and table clean it will bank true again. Keep a cover on the table at all times when not in use Sunlight breaks down all rail rubber from the uv light I think all rubber is made from a pertroleum based material.
Craig
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