Early 70's point blanks.

[jayman]

Some of the pre-Meucci Meucci's, called Slade, made here in Denver actually did resemble a Balabushka.
Bob Meucci, Clay Etheridge, Terry McFadden, and someone else I can't remember that was well known.
In fact one of the "unknown" cues at the Kellerman auction was a Slade cue and several people thought it was a Balabushka.
I had a lot of phone calls about it, and since I know the original owner of the cue I knew what it was.
I have a friend that ordered a Slade cue in the 60's.
The first time I saw his cue I thought they copied Balabushka.
Terrific cues

Slade cues didn't make any cues with points. How would they be mistaken for a Balabushka? Nick Wright was also part of Slade cues. Clay never once mentioned any involvement from Bob Meucci when we talked about them. are you sure your thinking of Slade cues?
Slade cues were only made for about nine months. 1975 and early 1976. I think Bob was in Mississippi building Meucci cues at that point.

 

[classiccues]

This is funny. Now you don't even believe he set up Huebler before setting up his own shop, or built cues in Chicago. I have restored what was believed to be an old Meucci BCM cue from before 1975. It had a piloted joint and sealed wrap. I also asked Bob how his early cues were made. Guess what? He told me that they all had piloted joints, no signature and some had sealed wraps. Some of the same sources you say would have written about his blanks making do indeed write about his early cue making with National and such. So the proof of his early cues would be good enough. You seem well connected in the billiard world. Call Mr Helmstetter up and ask if he had Bob build him any blanks before he moved to Japan. If so that would prove Bob built blanks at the time you say he did not build them. Bob could be wrong on his years, but thinks he is pretty close on the years.

Chris,
No where am I referencing his time with anyone else. I asked for a pre-Meucci shop BOB MEUCCI cue. I am not commenting on anything else. The point was made about Bob making cues in his own name prior to Meucci cues. I am asking only to see one. Yes, we have all read his documented cuemaking history and NONE of that is in question. His time at National, none of that.
No one is saying he did NOT build blanks, he very well might have. For whom, that is another story. Do not dilute the thread with other references, because they are immaterial. I would very much like to see him point out a Bushka or Boti with a "Meucci" WOOD veneer blank. As well I would love to see an invoice to either cuemaker.

JV

 

[classiccues]

Slade cues didn't make any cues with points. How would they be mistaken for a Balabushka? Nick Wright was also part of Slade cues. Clay never once mentioned any involvement from Bob Meucci when we talked about them. are you sure your thinking of Slade cues?
Slade cues were only made for about nine months. 1975 and early 1976. I think Bob was in Mississippi building Meucci cues at that point.

Learned something today.. Slade cues...

JV

 

[cueman]

Chris,
No where am I referencing his time with anyone else. I asked for a pre-Meucci shop BOB MEUCCI cue. I am not commenting on anything else. The point was made about Bob making cues in his own name prior to Meucci cues. I am asking only to see one. Yes, we have all read his documented cuemaking history and NONE of that is in question. His time at National, none of that.
No one is saying he did NOT build blanks, he very well might have. For whom, that is another story. Do not dilute the thread with other references, because they are immaterial. I would very much like to see him point out a Bushka or Boti with a "Meucci" WOOD veneer blank. As well I would love to see an invoice to either cuemaker.

JV

I am assuming you keep better records than the rest of us do. I have not kept records of every cue customer let alone everyone I ever sold a full splice point blank to.
Bob did tell us how to tell the difference. Instead of white veneer in the black, orange, green, white. Look for maple. Maple will be darker in the white veneer slot. But he also said Burton usually used holly veneer, which means it could still be a Spain blank with maple, but that would be rarer. Oh, by the way Bob told me he will send me a brochure of his BCM cues. And on another note. Not all plastic veneer blanks you think came from Bob's time at Wico actually came form there. Viking also sold blanks after Bob gave it to Gordon. They supplied the parts for the Gandy cues and many others.

 

[cuesblues]

Slade cues didn't make any cues with points. How would they be mistaken for a Balabushka? Nick Wright was also part of Slade cues. Clay never once mentioned any involvement from Bob Meucci when we talked about them. are you sure your thinking of Slade cues?
Slade cues were only made for about nine months. 1975 and early 1976. I think Bob was in Mississippi building Meucci cues at that point.

Not only did the cue at the auction (formerly Gary Golder's cue) have points, Chris Byrne has Berta's at his shop and my friend Tate has one with his name on the butt cap. ALL three with points.
Definitely Slade cues

 

[jayman]

Not only did the cue at the auction (formerly Gary Golder's cue) have points, Chris Byrne has Berta's at his shop and my friend Tate has one with his name on the butt cap. ALL three with points.
Definitely Slade cues

Can you get some pictures? Both Clay and Nick told me they never made any with points. Nick still has his, he told me it was the fanciest model. It has inlays in the butt and no points. With half the cue makers involved telling me no points. I would have to see it to believe they are Slade cues. I'll see if I can get more info.

 

[classiccues]

I am assuming you keep better records than the rest of us do. I have not kept records of every cue customer let alone everyone I ever sold a full splice point blank to.
Bob did tell us how to tell the difference. Instead of white veneer in the black, orange, green, white. Look for maple. Maple will be darker in the white veneer slot. But he also said Burton usually used holly veneer, which means it could still be a Spain blank with maple, but that would be rarer. Oh, by the way Bob told me he will send me a brochure of his BCM cues. And on another note. Not all plastic veneer blanks you think came from Bob's time at Wico actually came form there. Viking also sold blanks after Bob gave it to Gordon. They supplied the parts for the Gandy cues and many others.

Chris,
With old laquer finish they all look the same. So really, c'mon. "But he also said Burton usually used holly veneer, which means it could still be a Spain blank with maple, but that would be rarer." What an out this is..

As far as Wico points go, I don't think anyone knows for sure, how long, how many, etc.. were made by Burton, Bob or Gordon. In the case of Szamboti, there might only be 10 or less, maybe 6. Who he got them from? I don't know, maybe Barry has a record. He could have gotten them from Palmer, who knows? But we know there are Wico points in Palmers from the mid - late 60's. This does seem to jive with Burtons notes.

Again, all I am asking is proof, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far this all goes against everything that is written, and it's not like the opportunity didn't arise during the earlier interviews for this to be known.

Show me a cue, better yet show me a Spain blank and a "Meucci" blank Bushka side by side.

JV

 

[cueman]

Chris,
With old laquer finish they all look the same. So really, c'mon. "But he also said Burton usually used holly veneer, which means it could still be a Spain blank with maple, but that would be rarer." What an out this is..

As far as Wico points go, I don't think anyone knows for sure, how long, how many, etc.. were made by Burton, Bob or Gordon. In the case of Szamboti, there might only be 10 or less, maybe 6. Who he got them from? I don't know, maybe Barry has a record. He could have gotten them from Palmer, who knows? But we know there are Wico points in Palmers from the mid - late 60's. This does seem to jive with Burtons notes.

Again, all I am asking is proof, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So far this all goes against everything that is written, and it's not like the opportunity didn't arise during the earlier interviews for this to be known.

Show me a cue, better yet show me a Spain blank and a "Meucci" blank Bushka side by side.

JV

I am curious why someone saying, "I sold some blanks" to anyone, is considered extraordinary claims? Does it somehow degrade something you consider sacred if Bob built the blanks? If I in the future name some of the famous cuemakers who bought cue parts or lathe parts from me, am I going to have to produce a 40 year old receipt to prove it?

 

[cuesblues]

Can you get some pictures? Both Clay and Nick told me they never made any with points. Nick still has his, he told me it was the fanciest model. It has inlays in the butt and no points. With half the cue makers involved telling me no points. I would have to see it to believe they are Slade cues. I'll see if I can get more info.

If I get over to Chris's shop or see Tate i'll get some pics.
Joe the dentist has the auction cue.
All three not only had points but they resembled the classic Bushka look.
I've played with Tate's cue, and if they were just plain janes I doubt I would of made Tate an offer, Pete & Berta an offer, and the only reason I didn't bid on the auction cue is because Gary Golder wanted it back. Gary quit bidding and Joe ended up with it.
I'm sure you know all of these people.

 

[jayman]

Not only did the cue at the auction (formerly Gary Golder's cue) have points, Chris Byrne has Berta's at his shop and my friend Tate has one with his name on the butt cap. ALL three with points.
Definitely Slade cues

I talked to Ernie Martinez this morning. He said that Clay had told him That Ray Holmes knew Bob Meucci in the early 70's, Bob talked ray into buying a lathe and then ended up borrowing it quite often. They had a falling out and some time after going their separate ways Ray started Slade cues.
He also said there were no points on any Slade cues, and that Clay had the cue brochure as well and there were no pointed cues in the brochure.

Clay told me the reason they didn't make cues with points was because at the time, none of the four guys there knew how too.

 

[classiccues]

I am curious why someone saying, "I sold some blanks" to anyone, is considered extraordinary claims? Does it somehow degrade something you consider sacred if Bob built the blanks? If I in the future name some of the famous cuemakers who bought cue parts or lathe parts from me, am I going to have to produce a 40 year old receipt to prove it?

Chris,
Because it's not in the already established written record and it has had the opportunity to be there 100 times already. You put faith in WAY to many things.

No, if it is true and it can be proven, I'll say it slow, it deserves to be there. Are we clear on that portion of it? We have proof every which way regarding the others, so it's only RIGHT to have it here. Am I asking you why you take this as gospel? Is it because he is in the ICA HOF? No, I don't and do not care. I care that the record is correct, that's it.

No, because you ain't Spain, Szamboti, or Bushka.

Let me ask you this.. if someone came to revise the New Testament (or whatever book you prefer) and went against the grain with some common belief, would you ask for proof?

JV

 

[jayman]

If I get over to Chris's shop or see Tate i'll get some pics.
Joe the dentist has the auction cue.
All three not only had points but they resembled the classic Bushka look.
I've played with Tate's cue, and if they were just plain janes I doubt I would of made Tate an offer, Pete & Berta an offer, and the only reason I didn't bid on the auction cue is because Gary Golder wanted it back. Gary quit bidding and Joe ended up with it.
I'm sure you know all of these people.

I do know most of them. Joe and I went to the auction together. He didn't buy a Slade cue at the auction. We sat next to each other and I held onto all the cues he stole...I mean bought.

 

[cueman]

Chris,
Because it's not in the already established written record and it has had the opportunity to be there 100 times already. You put faith in WAY to many things.

No, if it is true and it can be proven, I'll say it slow, it deserves to be there. Are we clear on that portion of it? We have proof every which way regarding the others, so it's only RIGHT to have it here. Am I asking you why you take this as gospel? Is it because he is in the ICA HOF? No, I don't and do not care. I care that the record is correct, that's it.

No, because you ain't Spain, Szamboti, or Bushka.

Let me ask you this.. if someone came to revise the New Testament (or whatever book you prefer) and went against the grain with some common belief, would you ask for proof?
JV

So from the Gospel/cue comparison I take it that you do consider cues to be Sacred even though you did not answer that question. I do not consider cues sacred or idols, they are just artistic sporting tools. I have no reason to doubt Bob and you seem to have no reason to believe him. If Bob never built a blank he just like the other three in this thread deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I have seem too many Bushka's that have points in them that no one can explain. Spain, Szamboti and Titlist just won't provide the answer to every cue's points.

You say I don't need to prove anything cause I "ain't Spain, Szamboti, or Bushka." Neither is Bob, but you want proof for who he sold some parts to 40 years ago. If I gave you a list of all the cuemakers who have bought stuff from me you might be surprised. If Prather released their list I bet you would also be shocked.

 

[nick serdula]

Dead eye Dick was the Best I ever saw.

Played with one of Bob's cues that Bob built for him in his gaurage. He built monsters there. Never should have changed his shaft wood.
Nick

 

[classiccues]

So from the Gospel/cue comparison I take it that you do consider cues to be Sacred even though you did not answer that question. I do not consider cues sacred or idols, they are just artistic sporting tools. I have no reason to doubt Bob and you seem to have no reason to believe him. If Bob never built a blank he just like the other three in this thread deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I have seem too many Bushka's that have points in them that no one can explain. Spain, Szamboti and Titlist just won't provide the answer to every cue's points.

You say I don't need to prove anything cause I "ain't Spain, Szamboti, or Bushka." Neither is Bob, but you want proof for who he sold some parts to 40 years ago. If I gave you a list of all the cuemakers who have bought stuff from me you might be surprised. If Prather released their list I bet you would also be shocked.

Maybe you're giving him a pass because he's religious. Which might be the real truth here. LIke I said, you make the claim, you provide the proof.

Yeah but Bob is saying he sold points to George and Gus, and you can't say that. If you said it, I would want proof also. Other than that, it's a dead issue. I don't care whom you sold to, or the Prathers, and I wouldn't be shocked. I am sure some people ealry on in their careers couldn't cut points. Thats ok. If they admit it, or get caught lying about it, that's on them. We aren't talking about Bob's credentials to be in your HOF either, that's irrelevent.

Here we are talking about Bob, Gus, George. A claim is being made that goes against the grain, that's it. You make the claim to someone who is not blinded by other agenda's, they are going to want proof. I am sure before that ever gets printed in a publication proof will be required.

JV

 

[cuesblues]

I do know most of them. Joe and I went to the auction together. He didn't buy a Slade cue at the auction. We sat next to each other and I held onto all the cues he stole...I mean bought.

Get the 4-point cue Joe bought at the auction authenticated.
Gary Golder owned the cue before Mr. Kellerman had it.
Ask Gary who made it.
Also, I played on a team with Tate for 2-years and saw his Slade cue every week.
He ordered the cue from Slade and his name is on the butt cap.
Again, Berta's Slade cue is in Chris Byrnes shop right now.

The only 3-Slade cues i've seen are all traditional looking 4-point cues.

 

[jayman]

Get the 4-point cue Joe bought at the auction authenticated.
Gary Golder owned the cue before Mr. Kellerman had it.
Ask Gary who made it.
Also, I played on a team with Tate for 2-years and saw his Slade cue every week.
He ordered the cue from Slade and his name is on the butt cap.
Again, Berta's Slade cue is in Chris Byrnes shop right now.

The only 3-Slade cues i've seen are all traditional looking 4-point cues.

That is what Gary thinks is a Slade? It is not a Slade. I suspect it was also made in the 60's. Wrong joint, wrong taper, much older, has points, no logo..
Its not a Slade. Really.

 

[jayman]

Here are a couple pics of the Slade logo and joint. These are pictures of a cue belonging to a friend of Chris Tate's aka the Palmer collector.

 

[nick serdula]

Danny sold Gus blanks

I know because he told me in an email. It is imaterial where Gus bought early blanks. Later in his career he decided he could better and as Danny said he showed us all.
Nick

 

[classiccues]

I know because he told me in an email. It is imaterail where Gus bought early blanks. Later in his career he decided he could better and as Danny said he showed us all.
Nick

Danny? Another guy who wants in on the record..

Hey I heard Gus bought blanks from George Britner. If we are going to screw the pooch on the records let's do it right.

I do remember someone else claiming Gus bought blanks from them and it ending not as they had hoped. Barry takes this stuff seriously, BTW.

JV