Smoking at tournament matches

I'm for banning the smoke that fills the poolroom from the grill. Greasy hamburgers and sausages give off smoke that seems to make the air blue. I'm an ex-hamburger/sausage eater and I say these things should be banned from tournament play. I get down on a tough shot and begin my last stroke and my opponent reaches for another sausage and pepper sandwich, wrapped in foil that flickers and flashes in my eyes. When it's his turn at the table, he lays his cue on the felt and walks to the counter to grab yet another sausage sandwich. He calls it his hamburger/sausage break. Now, more blue smoke fills the room and my eyes begin to water. Greasy fingerprints cover the rails, rack and chalk. Suddenly, the room owner turns on the ventilation fan and the breeze is so powerful, it blows the toupe off my opponent's head and it lands on the cueball. Is that a foul?
 
The rights are not the same when one person can poison the air of the person next to them.

I agree that a person can smoke or not smoke. That's not the issue. The issue is when the activity influences the person next to them. You can make examples in a hundred ways.

Let's go to an egregious one, I want to burn plastic in my garage and vent it towards your house. Burning plastic releases toxins that are especially harmful. Should I have the right to do this with no blockage whatsoever?

If you take the full libertarian stance then yes I should and you would then have the right to shoot me to stop it. Obviously though in most societies you don't have the right to kill me for whatever reason you want to so then you have to take other steps.

Or maybe you think it's ok if I paint my shelves in my driveway and the overspray covers your new car, or your kid?

There is a certain civility that comes with being in proximity to each other that must be maintained or else the population will be reduced dramatically in violent ways.

I feel that you have no right to poison me. Anywhere that there is a common space the default position should be that no one should do anything in that space that harms others. Thus if one wants to poison themselves then they should be free to do so in any manner which does not also endanger others.

Consumption of alcohol is a form of poision as is bacon. But both of these activities can be done with zero adverse affect on the person standing beside the consumer of these two things. Smoking does not fall into that category.

Perhaps I would like to practice my swordsmanship. Obviously I cannot walk into the pool room and start doing wild sword maneuvers. Even if I were not going to harm anyone it is clear that people should stay clear of the blades. Thus I am imposing my will on the group and claiming a certain amount of the commons as my own until such time as I am done. That would get shut down pretty quickly for obvious reasons.

So no, it's not simply a matter of choice. It's a matter of harm. My body is not yours to violate with your smoke. If I willingly stay in your proximity when you smoke then I certainly am complicit but when the default position is simply not to foul up the commons neither of us has any problem with physical harm.

Personally I feel that the answer is e-cigarettes or some other solution that keeps the smoke from entering the common air. I think people should be allowed to do drugs, drink, smoke, and really whatever they want as long as they are not invading my space.

If you feel brave enough then go play pool naked. If everyone walks out then the pool room owner can decide to make a rule against naked pool. And if people wold do the same for smoky rooms then that would work as well. But the fact of it is that people will make concessions in order to do what makes them feel good. Even though they have a choice they won't exercise it if the alternative is less pleasurable.

All that said I LOVE bacon and over here we have a sort of candy bacon that is SO AWESOME. I love to go get 100 grams of it and wolf it down. It's like bacon chewing gum, so freaking great you can feel your heart stopping with each bite.

John, the inside of a pool room is not common space. It actually belongs to someone, and that person allows you entry. This is the part nobody seems to understand. You are not entitled to make demands. If I allowed you entry to my vehicle and you demanded I play heavy metal at an unreasonably high level, I would quickly throw you out...health risk or not, you have no rights over my vehicle, just like you have no rights over the pool room you do not own.
 
John, the inside of a pool room is not common space. It actually belongs to someone, and that person allows you entry. This is the part nobody seems to understand. You are not entitled to make demands. If I allowed you entry to my vehicle and you demanded I play heavy metal at an unreasonably high level, I would quickly throw you out...health risk or not, you have no rights over my vehicle, just like you have no rights over the pool room you do not own.

I agree with that. Which is why I feel that pool room owners should post a sign - "Warning - poisonous air inside." That will serve as sufficient and fair warning to anyone entering the building.

By the same token there should be no standards in place for the kitchen so that the food handling could be as dangerous as the owner wants.

Furthermore there should be no building codes whatsoever so that the owner can make it as unsafe as he dares to.

Lastly if the owner wants to have a dripping water pipe feeding a colony of dangerous mold spores that flow through central air then that should be his right to do so over his property. The owner of a business has no legal obligation to provide a safe environment for his patrons. The basic motivation to provide a safe space is continued business right.

Basically enter this building and eat this food and breath this air at your own risk.

Does that about sum it up?
 
Agreed!! Or how about when your at the table and your opponent blows smoke right towards the table or uses their lighter coincidentally during your last stroke.

Guys, come play in Europe. No smoking in the tournaments here.

Though you would still have to deal with people reaching for their coffee or banana or chalk or whatever when you are down on the last ball. Some things never change.
 
It seems very strange to me that smoking is allowed at all in inside rooms.

I am 23 years, and ever since I became of legal age (18), I have never seen a place where indoor smoking was allowed. They changed the law ~2007.

I live in a different country too :p The tournaments I take part it, don't allow you to smoke a cig during your time-out.

I am a smoker myself but indoor smoking sucks ass. Why would one smoke indoors anyway? It's awful.
 
It seems very strange to me that smoking is allowed at all in inside rooms.

I am 23 years, and ever since I became of legal age (18), I have never seen a place where indoor smoking was allowed. They changed the law ~2007.

I live in a different country too :p The tournaments I take part it, don't allow you to smoke a cig during your time-out.

I am a smoker myself but indoor smoking sucks ass. Why would one smoke indoors anyway? It's awful.

Very interesting perspective.

Autist, many of us are old enough to easily recall a time in this country where people smoked anywhere and everywhere, all the time. At work, in restaurants, in their cars with their children, literally everywhere. Talk show hosts, and newspeople on TV. (I love those old photo's of Johnny Carson interviewing people while holding a cigarette.... such a different time.)

There is an incredibly powerful tobacco industry lobby here in the US, and they fight laws regulating smoking vigorously. As you can see from some of the responses here (and in the other smoking thread) many smokers have a lack of decency regarding the output of their cigarettes, and are fighting for "their" rights.

Fortunately, more and more states are limiting where people can smoke. It was very strange for me to go into a private club here in another part of my state recently, and see folks smoking in the bar. (Private clubs are exempt from the law in this state.) It has been that long since we've had it banned here.
 
Whats just as bad is going for a smoke during a match. if you cant play a match without a fix QUIT/

lol Slows the games down quite a bit sometimes, doesn't it?

That, of course, is one of the negative consequences of having a non-smoking room.

Jeff Livingston
 
Would it be the right of a room owner to publicly announce (and enforce) a tournament rule that says:

NO SMOKERS ALLOWED TO PLAY IN TOURNAMENT.
Here's the current list of smokers not allowed
(additional names added as info come in about their habit):

Joe Schmoe
Bob Bad
Jim Slim
etc
etc

That way, the games proceed faster, the room is cleaner and all those who are playing in the tournament don't have to deal with ANY smoking problems.

Would that action be fair?


Jeff Livingston
 
what's wrong with you guys? am i a citizen of a different country??

JoeyA & ShootingArts, neither of you are young punks. you are my hero's. what is with this nonsense?

we got guys in action living and dying for our "rights" that we all love & cherish.

please don't make their sacrifices needless. for little squabbles over a little smoke in a game of pool?

maybe i should just give up trying and be politically correct.

i will not...

your friend,
smokey
 
Hey Joey, I started a smoking rant a few days ago while you were away at a pool tourny that you didnt invite me to:rolleyes:

How about we blow some stinky a$$ fart the smokers way:grin:
 
Would it be the right of a room owner to publicly announce (and enforce) a tournament rule that says:

NO SMOKERS ALLOWED TO PLAY IN TOURNAMENT.
Here's the current list of smokers not allowed
(additional names added as info come in about their habit):

Joe Schmoe
Bob Bad
Jim Slim
etc
etc

That way, the games proceed faster, the room is cleaner and all those who are playing in the tournament don't have to deal with ANY smoking problems.

Would that action be fair?


Jeff Livingston

No. Just no smoking during the matches or in the room would be ok.

What they do on their own time and outside is their business.
 
JoeyA & ShootingArts, neither of you are young punks. you are my hero's. what is with this nonsense?

we got guys in action living and dying for our "rights" that we all love & cherish.

please don't make their sacrifices needless. for little squabbles over a little smoke in a game of pool?

maybe i should just give up trying and be politically correct.

i will not...

your friend,
smokey

Ah, I finally understand why we invaded Iraq...to protect our right to smoke!
I have a "little" squabble...I was diagnosed with cancer seven years ago. My doctor said it was most likely from second hand smoke in bars and pool rooms.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
 
hey Donny...

Ah, I finally understand why we invaded Iraq...to protect our right to smoke!
I have a "little" squabble...I was diagnosed with cancer seven years ago. My doctor said it was most likely from second hand smoke in bars and pool rooms.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

really very, very sri to hear, i wish you well and a full recovery.

but i do not believe it was 2nd hand smoke, again sri.

of course, out of compassion i will not argue with you and just wish you wellness.

but sometimes, there is no one to blame. sometimes it is just: life.

all the best and Good Health,
smokey
 
I have a "little" squabble...I was diagnosed with cancer seven years ago. My doctor said it was most likely from second hand smoke in bars and pool rooms.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl

You've survived lung cancer for 7 years? Congrats, that is awesome man, good for you! :)
 
No. Just no smoking during the matches or in the room would be ok.

What they do on their own time and outside is their business.

But smokers go outside and waste the time of non-smokers. Doesn't the room owner or TD have the right to keep this from happening by restricting the tournament to just non-smokers?

Jeff Livingston
 
But smokers go outside and waste the time of non-smokers. Doesn't the room owner or TD have the right to keep this from happening by restricting the tournament to just non-smokers?

Jeff Livingston

No. This is discrimination.

The correct way to not waste time and damage other's health:

1) No smoking during the match
2) No smoking indoors


What you do between matches if you have to wait 30 minutes is entirely your own business.

Banning smokers from tourney would seem immensely unfair.

That's how I see it.
 
No. This is discrimination.

The correct way to not waste time and damage other's health:

1) No smoking during match time-outs
2) No smoking indoors


What you do between matches if you have to wait 30 minutes is entirely your own business.

Banning smokers from tourney would seem immensely unfair.

That's how I see it.

OF COURSE it is discrimination.

So is requiring smokers to go outside.

Doesn't the guy who owns the room have that right?

Jeff Livingston
 
OF COURSE it is discrimination.

So is requiring smokers to go outside.

Doesn't the guy who owns the room have that right?

Jeff Livingston

Requiring smokers to go outside is discrimination?

Smoking in general and smoking in the vicinity of non-smokers is extremly unhealthy for everyone, the idiotic "right" to ruin other people's health was not frowned upon until recent decades, because people didn't simply know the real effects of smoke and second-hand smoke.

Now that we know the threats, it should be legally banned(not smoking in general)
 
I'm a smoker

and I have NO problem with going outside matter of fact we don't smoke in the house so I mostly go outside everywhere any way!!!!that being said......

I'd vote for a NO SMOKING inside during tourney's and NO SMOKE BREAK or any other type of break during your match(unless its an emergency) any day of the week....................
 
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