The answer might be WPT?

noMoreSchon

noMoreSchon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On my way home today, after thinking about how little money in tourneys there are anymore, and how much is in poker tourneys, why couldn't there be a crossover on the system in use by the WPT? Small by in at local levels to regional events, to a national level? The payouts are enormous on that level, 1 mil to first? Would the pool community be willing to shell out to a tourney where only one could go on? Just curious and looking for input into a thought on the road:eek:
 
It could be done... And easier than you would imagine... You would have to enlist the room owners but I ran the numbers and the local entry was super cheap based on only 28 rooms... I still have the model and numbers around here somewhere... I'll see if I can dig it up at some point...
 
noMoreSchon said:
On my way home today, after thinking about how little money in tourneys there are anymore, and how much is in poker tourneys, why couldn't there be a crossover on the system in use by the WPT? Small by in at local levels to regional events, to a national level? The payouts are enormous on that level, 1 mil to first? Would the pool community be willing to shell out to a tourney where only one could go on? Just curious and looking for input into a thought on the road:eek:
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The Renfro said:
It could be done... And easier than you would imagine... You would have to enlist the room owners but I ran the numbers and the local entry was super cheap based on only 28 rooms... I still have the model and numbers around here somewhere... I'll see if I can dig it up at some point...
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Players go to pool tourneys to try to win money not to sponsor pro pool. You want there to be money in pro pool then find outside sponsorship the bangers, B player and local sharks are all trying to make a buck not sponsor pro pool. The do not want any funds cut out of a pot and if you start that tourney will not get many players.
 
vapoolplayer said:
Pool requires too much skill and the percieved luck(variance) is just not enough to attract dead money.

Poker thrives because it is full of dead money because bad(or just less skilled) players think they have a chance to win, when in reality they have almost no chance.
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Pretty much +1 to this. Ever since Chris Moneymaker (an amateur) won the Main Event, the poker world really boomed and everybody and their brother starting thinking if he can win it, so can I. There is big luck factor in poker. You have to play well and run well. You could literally play flawless....make it to just before the money, and get it in AIPF with AA and lose to the big stacks 22 even though you were a 80%+ favorite to win.

The prize pools are so much bigger, and people think its an easy game since all these amateurs seem to cash big or win the big tournaments.

I like one pro players comment about what it takes to win the main event. "To win the main event you need to win about 15-20 coin flips IN A ROW." He was emphasizing the run good factor that also comes into play and just using it as an example.
 
That would be the N.U.T.S.

The BIG problem is that most promoters do not want to work together. They are all to happy with their little piece of the pie. This "pipe-dream" will never happen in America. The IPT had the best shot of tying it all together but they felt they were too good for anyone but themselves. And/or they wanted it all for themselves. Now you have things like Bonus Ball which is just like several other games that tried to enter the market and failed. Herlequin is one that comes to mind (courtesy link in case you never heard of it: http://www.halloweenstore.com/thestore/prods/harlequin.html ). Bonus ball has gone a step further by adding a studio and having some live stream and promoting and "paying some" pro's to play but in all honesty unless they incorporate nationwide local and regional events they to are doomed.

Unfortunately every tool, every piece of the puzzle we need to have a national system that leads to great paying events is already in place. But the pieces are like magnets and they always seem to be pointing in a direction that repels them from one another instead of seeing the common "long term" goal and attracting to each other. It truly is a shameful testament to exactly why our sport will never receive major outside sponsorship.

F8B

noMoreSchon said:
On my way home today, after thinking about how little money in tourneys there are anymore, and how much is in poker tourneys, why couldn't there be a crossover on the system in use by the WPT? Small by in at local levels to regional events, to a national level? The payouts are enormous on that level, 1 mil to first? Would the pool community be willing to shell out to a tourney where only one could go on? Just curious and looking for input into a thought on the road:eek:
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Maybe...but....

vapoolplayer said:
Pool requires too much skill and the percieved luck(variance) is just not enough to attract dead money.

Poker thrives because it is full of dead money because bad(or just less skilled) players think they have a chance to win, when in reality they have almost no chance.

No one that plays less than a high A speed thinks they have a chance to win a big pool tournament full of top level players. The equivalent to D players in poker feel like they have a chance.

You could use the EXACT same format as poker tournaments and you will NEVER get the prize pool even close.
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I think it would depend on the numbers.

I have practically zero chance of beating a top pro (or several at that) for a tournament win, but with the kind of payouts seen in the WPT, I'd be happy placing last and still walking away with a nice chunk of change. In the current state of affairs, the ROI just isn't there for the average player to create this dead money, but with low placing/high paying winnings, it becomes more reasonable. And that would create the variance seen in poker. If I only have to get lucky a handful of times to place last, with a multi-thousand dollar payout, I like my odds a little more and would be more willing to enter. Let the pros duke it out for the million dollar prize, I'd be ok with 35k. At least until I can get the 8 hours a day in on practicing my break. :)

The Renfro said:
It could be done... And easier than you would imagine... You would have to enlist the room owners but I ran the numbers and the local entry was super cheap based on only 28 rooms... I still have the model and numbers around here somewhere... I'll see if I can dig it up at some point...
Click to expand...

If you come across those numbers, I'd be interested in seeing what could potentially be accomplished through some restructuring and cooperative association.
 
Not trying to knock anyone but comparing the term variance in pool and poker are two completely different animals. I could post graphs in poker that show variance or even EV lines and would make people who play a lot of poker vomit a bit in their mouth after looking at them.
 
vapoolplayer said:
Variance is a ***** and a half. At least when I was playing online poker, I could play enough hands per hour it wouldn't feel as bad. Variance in live poker is just soul crushing sometimes.
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Talking variance in pool to me is more like getting a bad table roll, or my opponent missing a shot and getting lucky and hooking me (when he isn't trying to play safe)....just to list a couple of examples.

Poker you can get a lot more in detail on what variance involves. I have played online the last two years and used to keep track of results on HEM. Just as an example over about 10k hands on 25nl I was 8 BI under EV or about -$200. I was thinking man I run bad. Then I saw some graphs on 2+2 that showed real variance, and real sample sizes and I then realized I was not running even remotely close to as bad as some of the players. It is a taxing game for sure as is pool, but for different reasons.
 
Exactly...not even the same game!...last post on this in case people think I am full of it...see attached graph from a guy full ring NL guy. This is big blinds and doesn't mention what level(s) he is playing....but if you think you run bad in pool try playing poker...think again!
 

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The answer is simply to get more people to play pool.

I live in a village of 1700 people and we have a golf course. Within 30 miles I have multiple golf courses, martial arts studios, and plenty of poker opportunities. Where's the closest pool room? An hour and a half away.

We have a really active league/bar tournament scene in the area but it's all on barboxes that have seen better days.

The natural progression of professional sports goes something like this:

1) Amateurs play it... for fun
2) Amateurs organize competitions/tournaments... for fun
3) People start watching it... for fun.
4) People start paying to watch it.
5) Professionals!

Pool did it once and is (quite obviously) in decline now. If you want to see it rise again, you have to start back at step 1. Get people to play the damn game!
 
vapoolplayer said:
No offense.....but......no shit.

Millions(yes millions) of people play pool every year. People don't watch it for fun though. Figure out how to turn it into a spectator sport, and you're an instant millionaire almost.

But I can't think of any possible way to turn pool into a spectator sport big enough to make substantial profit.
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None taken.

Personally, I don't think there is a way for someone to make a substantial profit from pool anymore. I think we have too many things to entertain ourselves and while people will go out and play pool, they're going to go home and watch "reality" TV.

So maybe I should have said, "You're not going to get people to watch professionals play pool. Get more people playing and even that would be quite an achievement."
 
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