OK, if someone not thinking or color blind hits another light colored ball instead of the cue ball, is it ball in hand? The few times I've seen it (or done it myself, LOL) it was a BIH foul. But yesterday at an APA match someone accidently hit the 9 Ball thinking it was the cue and it wasn't ruled a foul, the reasoning being one has to hit the cue ball for it to be a foul. Is it different if you're playing "all balls foul"?
Rule question
- Thread starter Jeff Rosen
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Here is a link to the APA 8/9-ball rule book. On page 7, item g appears to address your situation, its not a foul to ACCIDENTALLY move balls during your turn...
http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf
http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf
I been playing for a long time and never heard of this one. How can someone (even if they don't realize it) hit an object ball into the other balls and it's not a foul. If that were he case, and you were in a bad way, you could just cue up on an object ball, break the cluster apart, and then go to the cue ball and run out.
This is in line with what I was thinking. Thanks for the link.
The rules state it is not a foul to "accidentally" move any other balls besides the cue ball. Even though the player thought it was the cue ball, he intentionally hit the object ball. This should be a foul.
TheTalentASP
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The APA rule states that it is not a foul, the opponent has discretion to place the balls back where he/she "thinks" they were, and then the player that moved them retains the shot. I have had this situation occur to me in league play. My opponent placed the ball back where it was to their advantage. ie. placed a ball on the rail that was off the rail, or made the shot or out harder for me. In APA, from my experience, it is definitely to your opponents advantage if you move a ball. The rule also goes on to state that if there are a certain number of balls moved in a rack, it is a loss of rack. I think it is four balls.
Having said all of this, I shoot pool halls and gamble also. We play all ball fouls there and I definitely prefer that rule. But in APA there is a lower level shooter that is prone to making this type of mistake. There is also usually alcohol involved because it is a bar league. This is the fairest way to do things when people are out for fun in a bar and are not high level players.
Having said all of this, I shoot pool halls and gamble also. We play all ball fouls there and I definitely prefer that rule. But in APA there is a lower level shooter that is prone to making this type of mistake. There is also usually alcohol involved because it is a bar league. This is the fairest way to do things when people are out for fun in a bar and are not high level players.
The APA states it is not a foul to "accidentally" move any other balls besides the cue ball. The person intentionally hit the object ball. It doesn't matter if he thought it was the cue ball, it should be a foul.
Have to agree
I can not go with anyone who says it is still an accident. An intended stroke at a ball is not an accident, it is a stroke and a shot.
I can not go with anyone who says it is still an accident. An intended stroke at a ball is not an accident, it is a stroke and a shot.
If you mistakenly thought it was the cue ball wouldn't make it "accidentally" or unintentional. 'Thing is that it's subjective. If I say it was an accident and I'm the shooter, then it was an accident. In the end we just have to replace the balls to the opponents satisfaction
He didn't accidentally move balls while in the act of shooting or preparing to shoot. He intentionally hit the object ball. The reason he intentionally hit the object ball shouldn't matter. It's no different than forgetting you have stripes and hitting a solid.
The issue with all ball fouls is that unless there is a ref there, it's very tough to say who fouled. Who is watching? The guy trying to beat you that may have seen your shirt touch a ball? You are when you need to focus on the shot? Your friend who wants you to win?
I'd rather deal with cueball fouls only and have it be a foul only if you move more than one ball even in "real" rules.
That is a good point. The analogy is very good, you can have a brain fart and shoot the wrong group "by accident" but it's still a foul. Shooting an object ball is not an accidental motion, he just was not paying attention to the table.
But on the other hand, there are league rules and "real" rules. League rules go against logic.
Like when you don't actually play to your handicap but drop games which causes the spots to go hugely in favor of the weaker player or not using a rule because it's too hard for players to figure it out (push shot in APA).
I agreee and you really should stay in the Main Forum more often, your batting average will soon begin to creep past the Mendoza line
I would think if the dude that mistook the object ball for the cue ball had a ball strike the cue ball during his brain fart it would then without a doubt becomes a foul.
You're right, it SHOULDN'T matter. But remember this is The APA we're talking about. Maybe it shouldn't matter, but it does. While real pool might not see a distinction between this and hitting the wrong suit of balls , The APA does. The only way this is a foul is if one of the balls you hit hits the cue ball. Think of it this way: in the APA the only ball that is always alive is the cue ball. As long as no contact is made with the cue ball, and all the balls moved are replaced prior to the shot, there is no foul. The only contradiction to this I can think of is if you were to pocket the eight ball (or knock it off the table) during "accidental" ball movement, I believe that would constitute loss of game.
I have to disagree with the interpretation of the rule. It states "accidental" movement of object balls prior to or in the process of shooting. The person made deliberate, intentional contact with the object ball. He mistakenly thought it was the cue ball. Another example: If you walk up to the table and proceed to pick up a few balls, you are moving balls, but, by definition of the rules, it is not accidental and that would be a foul.
I can absolutely see your point. This is where the rule book could use a bit of clarity, but the situation is probably so rare no one ever saw a need to address it. As is the case with The APA many times, the APA written rules are contrary to commonly accepted rules. My thought is that the word mistake (or mistakenly) makes the contact inadvertent. Had you realized you weren't shooting the cue ball you would have stopped and shot the cue ball instead of the object ball. If you shoot the wrong suit of object balls, the foul occurs when the cue ball strikes the wrong object ball. I would think the difference is that in the second example the cue ball is involved, in the first it is not. Also, there is no rule that I can find regarding intentional movement of object balls. I would tend to think it's more of a sportsmanship foul, a call that would need to be made by the office. Interesting question and interpretation. I think we may need a higher ruling.
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I'm starting back in the APA this summer after being away from it for 6 years. It may be a bit of an attitude adjustment from the stricter VNEA or BCA.