Ball movement and accuracy - 12.5 vs 12.9 diameter tip

F

fish2

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Taleof two cues.
18.35 oz cue with a 12.5 diameter tip Mezz Sigma shaft and a 19.38 oz cue with a 12.9 diameter Vantage shaft, both have the same tip. After two hours of playing, I feel that I can move the ball easier with the Mezz cue, but accuracy seems to have improved by using the 12.9 tip.....
 
fish2 said:
Taleof two cues.
18.35 oz cue with a 12.5 diameter tip Mezz Sigma shaft and a 19.38 oz cue with a 12.9 diameter Vantage shaft, both have the same tip. After two hours of playing, I feel that I can move the ball easier with the Mezz cue, but accuracy seems to have improved by using the 12.9 tip.....
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I 100% agree with you on the shaft size.

The nerds will tell you otherwise and argue you to death that it is not the case. They will generate their own bullshit scientific facts on this. Made up by them or their buddy that has the same opinion. And come up with that .4mm more surface area and start blaming tip shape and other BS to validate their point.

If it works for you rock it
 
I can do tale of two shafts, 12.4. 12.9 - I own both and after a few months I did find I favored the 12.9 especially on longer shots. Nothing wrong with 12.4 just... I guess less forgiving?
 
13s,14s, might be easier to aim because they get you closer to the circumference - visually speaking; easier to place the stroke through center ball and easier to spot potential miscues at a glance.
 
fish2 said:
Taleof two cues.
18.35 oz cue with a 12.5 diameter tip Mezz Sigma shaft and a 19.38 oz cue with a 12.9 diameter Vantage shaft, both have the same tip. After two hours of playing, I feel that I can move the ball easier with the Mezz cue, but accuracy seems to have improved by using the 12.9 tip.....
Click to expand...
" I feel that I can move the ball easier with the Mezz cue, "
lighter cue you can accelerate more (for you)
"accuracy seems to have improved by using the 12.9 tip."
i think its said a larger tip is more forgiving than a smaller tip
i am not an instructor
jmho
 
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I have a 12 mm and a 12.75 mm shaft. Depending on the day I play equally crappy with both. But seriously I find the opposite for me. I move the CB easier with the 12.75 but tend to be more accurate with the 12 mm. I think this is most likely sheer perception and nothing really tangible.
 
bbb said:
" I feel that I can move the ball easier with the Mezz cue, "
lighter cue you can accelerate more
"accuracy seems to have improved by using the 12.9 tip."
i think its said a larger tip is more forgiving than a smaller tip
i am not an instructor
jmho
Click to expand...

So a lighter cue with a 12.9 tip should be my next project :)
 
fish2 said:
Taleof two cues.
18.35 oz cue with a 12.5 diameter tip Mezz Sigma shaft and a 19.38 oz cue with a 12.9 diameter Vantage shaft, both have the same tip. After two hours of playing, I feel that I can move the ball easier with the Mezz cue, but accuracy seems to have improved by using the 12.9 tip.....
Click to expand...
This has long been a topic of interest to me. I don't have any logical answers, but I do have a preference. But I strongly suspect that any scientific, measurable differences in performance and accuracy of shaft/tip size are small enough (let's ignore the topic of deflection for now) to be overwhelmed by differences in tip shape, composition, etc., so in the end, the most important factor is your personal preference and comfort level.

I will say, going back to the Jerry Briesath/Mark Wilson 'circle of error' discussion on making tip contact at the precise point at which you aim and intend to hit the cue ball, it seems helpful to me to use a thinner shaft. I prefer 11.75 to 12.5 or 13, mainly because I can better visualize where the cue tip will contact the cue ball. Does this truly improve my accuracy? I don't know, but it gives me a sense of confidence, so it's a good thing in my case.
 
I remember my first Hope cue came with a 12.5 shaft and I was accused of playing with a 'needle'. This was back in the day when 13mm shafts were the norm, all the great players of the time were playing with the 13's from Mosconi on down. By today's standards he would be accused with playing with a log! I suspect something around 12.75 is more or less the sweet spot.
 
NevadaP said:
I will say, going back to the Jerry Briesath/Mark Wilson 'circle of error' discussion on making tip contact at the precise point at which you aim and intend to hit the cue ball, it seems helpful to me to use a thinner shaft. I prefer 11.75 to 12.5 or 13, mainly because I can better visualize where the cue tip will contact the cue ball. Does this truly improve my accuracy? I don't know, but it gives me a sense of confidence, so it's a good thing in my case.
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This makes sense to me. We can't see the part of the tip at which contact is made. That point i somewhere out in front of the top radius of the tip that we can see from our shooting position. A smaller radius should allow us to get a more focused sense of where that point is.
 
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Just last night i hit a EddieFarris sneaky owned by fellow AZ'r D.Remick. G10 pin, 12.8mm and around 19oz. One of the lieveliest sweetest hitting cues i've ever tried. Never been a fan of anything under 12.75. Never had any accuracy/action issues with full-size(12.7-13mm) lumber.
 
bbb said:
...lighter cue you can accelerate more
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A heavier cue delivers the same force with less speed.

bbb said:
i think its said a larger tip is more forgiving than a smaller tip
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It's often said, but never true. A flatter tip might be a little more forgiving for near-centerball hits.

NevadaP said:
I strongly suspect that any scientific, measurable differences in performance and accuracy of shaft/tip size are small enough (let's ignore the topic of deflection for now) to be overwhelmed by differences in tip shape, composition, etc., so in the end, the most important factor is your personal preference and comfort level.
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Yes.

JolietJames said:
A smaller radius should allow us to get a more focused sense of where that point is.
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This is the only advantage I see with my 10mm tip (except less endmass/squirt).

pj
chgo
 
When I came back to pool after a 30 year lay off, I was told that my 13mm shaft was outdated and too big. Being that I knew nothing about the new tech, I went with a 12.5 Defy. I liked it and improved while shooting with it but I always put unintended spin on the CB, especially on longer shots. During a particularly frustrating night for my fiance' and me, we decided to switch cues. At the time she was shooting with a basic Viking that had a 13. For whatever reason, we both started shooting better. For me it was because I knew I had flaws in my stroke and I felt as if I had to be perfect every time which made me think too much and caused my stroke to be very mechanical. I felt (and still do) I had more margin for error. I have no idea if that's true or not and I don't care. I am sticking to 13mm because it quiets my mind and allows me to concentrate on more important things.

Since then, my stroke has improved quite a bit. I currently play with a 13mm Hsunami and can generate all the spin I need (and can control). The bottom line is (as someone said earlier), whatever works for you is what is best. The game is all between the ears and if you find something that works, stick with it.
 
I used 12.5 mm on my custom cues from David Tice, bought a CF becue cue and went with the 11.8mm shaft, the taper is 14" , I haven't been able to draw/follow the ball as well with this shaft SOMETIMES, it leads me to believe that with the smaller tip that I am not hitting the precise spot on the cue ball, I am waiting for the 12.3mm 18' shaft, If I am right then I will be more accurate with the slightly bigger tip, need to work on the stroke defect and I do but as a non pro player I will have to accept some of my shortcomings, which ever tip works the best I will use and have a spare in case a tip comes off in a match.
 
ACL said:
but I always put unintended spin on the CB, especially on longer shots.
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This indicates that you were not making cue tip/cue ball contact at exactly the point at which you intended. Back to the 'circle of error' discussion. Whatever cue, shaft, tip diameter, tip composition combination allow you to best control that intended point of contact is going to be what works best for you.

From all the comments in this post, it appears that for some folks a thicker shaft helps that goal. For others, me included, a thinner shaft seems easier to visualize and control.
 
Zerksies said:
I 100% agree with you on the shaft size.

The nerds will tell you otherwise and argue you to death that it is not the case. They will generate their own bullshit scientific facts on this. Made up by them or their buddy that has the same opinion. And come up with that .4mm more surface area and start blaming tip shape and other BS to validate their point.

If it works for you rock it
Click to expand...
The effects that people 'notice' with shaft diameter changes are to do with the natural pivot point changing and where they bridge. They have nothing to do with what you are saying. Just take a practice ball and compare the contact point size for these two different sized tips and you will see it is exactly the same.

As far as moving the ball easier you might have a harder tip on the mezz allowing you to hit the ball softer and get the same power. It might also have a different weight that is more suited to your playing style/body type.
 
NevadaP said:
This indicates that you were not making cue tip/cue ball contact at exactly the point at which you intended. Back to the 'circle of error' discussion. Whatever cue, shaft, tip diameter, tip composition combination allow you to best control that intended point of contact is going to be what works best for you.

From all the comments in this post, it appears that for some folks a thicker shaft helps that goal. For others, me included, a thinner shaft seems easier to visualize and control.
Click to expand...
Completely agree. As I have gone down this path, I discovered I had many flaws in my stroke, the biggest of which was I unintentionally jacked up on almost every shot. Now that I have fixed that (knock on wood), theoretically I could go back to a thinner shaft and be able to use it with confidence. That theory will remain unproven because I am sticking with the 13mm because that it just feels 'right' to me.

That plus the fact I am waiting for my new Hsunami 2.0 to arrive and, for what I spent on it, there's no way in hell I am going back to a 12.5. :LOL:
 
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