Looking For Opinions Re: Kielwood Cue Shafts.

[mikemosconi]

I think the way you did it worked for you to get more forward weight in the cue but was not a whole lot different than adding that .3 oz on the butt side of the joint pin. I don't think it would help him with feeling like he was had a 4 oz shaft riding through his bridge hand.

I most admire cue makers who can balance out a cue to specific weights without using metal weight bolts- Mike Capone comes to top of mind- it takes true skill to do this as opposed to just add chunks of metal to the back of a cue butt.
The idea of drilling out cue shafts and adding chunks of metal inside a cue shaft to make a desired weight - now THAT seems really scary to me! I like my cue shafts as evenly balanced across the entire shaft as I do with the back end of a cue - the less metal additions to a cue, IMO, shows true custom building as opposed to production shop economy assembly line end results.

 

[dendweller]

I most admire cue makers who can balance out a cue to specific weights without using metal weight bolts- Mike Capone comes to top of mind- it takes true skill to do this as opposed to just add chunks of metal to the back of a cue butt.
The idea of drilling out cue shafts and adding chunks of metal inside a cue shaft to make a desired weight - now THAT seems really scary to me! I like my cue shafts as evenly balanced across the entire shaft as I do with the back end of a cue - the less metal additions to a cue, IMO, shows true custom building as opposed to production shop economy assembly line end results.

When you mess around with doing your own work enough, you find out how things like aluminum extensions and metal joint and whether or not there is a rubber bumper change the hit.
I kind of wonder if someone could really tell in a blind test if a metal jointed cue has a 1 oz weight bolt in the butt.

 

[Michael Webb]

I most admire cue makers who can balance out a cue to specific weights without using metal weight bolts- Mike Capone comes to top of mind- it takes true skill to do this as opposed to just add chunks of metal to the back of a cue butt.
The idea of drilling out cue shafts and adding chunks of metal inside a cue shaft to make a desired weight - now THAT seems really scary to me! I like my cue shafts as evenly balanced across the entire shaft as I do with the back end of a cue - the less metal additions to a cue, IMO, shows true custom building as opposed to production shop economy assembly line end results.

Weighting shafts has been for a long time. It's just coming more known with c/f and kielwood shafts.
1/2x13 Brass inserts are still being done in regular wood shafts for 3/8x10 threads. Someone mentioned in the ATCM, that he had a brass insert with a radial inner thread. Predators Ghost joint screw set up, the brass insert weighs about 1.4 oz, joint screw .4 The key is, how much can be added without it feeling to much towards the joint.

 

[markjames]

i’ll bet that rich hsu’s fargo rate is higher
than any other kielwood shaft maker

 

[muskyed]

I was just going to mention Predator has been weighting their shafts for years, and no one has complained, but you beat me to it.
Not everyone can find the cue and shaft combination that works for them, and if you want it right for you, you sometimes have to modify, or pay to have a custom cue made.
That's not always simple as it sounds though. First you have the wait time, and thats ok if you can get what you want, but not all custom makers will actually make what specs you want. Some don't want to be pinned down like that.

 

[Bavafongoul]

I most admire cue makers who can balance out a cue to specific weights without using metal weight bolts- Mike Capone comes to top of mind- it takes true skill to do this as opposed to just add chunks of metal to the back of a cue butt.
The idea of drilling out cue shafts and adding chunks of metal inside a cue shaft to make a desired weight - now THAT seems really scary to me! I like my cue shafts as evenly balanced across the entire shaft as I do with the back end of a cue - the less metal additions to a cue, IMO, shows true custom building as opposed to production shop economy assembly line end results.

Cudos on expressing your thoughts that happen to coincide with my sentiments about cue making.

 

[JorgenBlomseth]

I have previously posted that CF shafts and my pool game do not align well. After playing original maple shafts for way longer than most players, making the switch to CF is just too bothersome. I do not play enough pool competitively to make the transition and pool now is played purely for the satisfaction I derive from playing well. I do not need to play better to improve my game. I really just need to avoid stroke flaws that happen and I just miss a shot I could have, and all too often, should have easily pocketed. When I miss, it sometimes is the easiest shot imaginable. I overstretch to reach a shot and still shoot it rather than use a bridge or play it opposite handed. That’s all on me for getting lazy and not respecting the table. I earned that by being careless or lackadaisical in my pre-shot routine.

Since I like playing with wood shafts versus synthetic material, I’ve been interested in getting a Kielwood shaft. The choices are vast as there are a lot of brands to consider and of course, there is always contacting my cue maker to build me one. So I am looking for suggestions on the best Kielwood shaft. Here’s what I want……a flat faced big pin joint, 12.75 mm, extended pro taper (15-16”), ferrule and min. Wt. of 4 ozs. The weight is important because I want this shaft to match the weight of the original shafts of my cues. I could even go up a few grams but going lighter would be in the wrong direction. I realize that torrifying lightens the wood so 4 ozs. weight Is unusual as most Kielwood shafts weighing that much are usually piloted. I need a flat faced wood shaft sans any receiver that would add to the weight.

Thanks for sharing your views about Kielwood shafts. Again, I have no interest in CF shafts so please avoid comparing CF and Kielwood. Anyone know whom is known for making the heaviest Kielwood shafts? Could a 12.5 mm shaft weigh 4.0 ozs. or is that diameter too thin? I want to maintain the weight proportionality of my cue shafts and cue butts so really 4.0 ozs is the min. weight I need in a Kielwood shaft. Price ranges I’ve seen range from low 200 dollars to $500 for most Kielwood shafts. Anyone have recommendations about which brand Kielwood shaft and reasons why?

We do have the same issues with those carbonfiber shafts. Can't get on with them, regardless of taper, tip, diameter or lenght.
I've always preferred the Predator Z2 shafts or best OB 2+ 11,7mm with wooden ferrule.

For all of my Meuccis purchased lately, i've also ordered The Pro Kielwood from Meucci and in my opinion, that is probably the best shaft ever made by Meucci Cues.
Gives a really nice and smooth hit (Kamui Clear Black soft) and at the same time all the action you can ask for. Have them in 28", 29" and 30" all of them custom 11,7mm
Meucci's Kielwood seems softer than most others i've tried, so i would absolutely recommend them.

 

[FastManners]

Is a kielwood shaft closer to CF shaft or regular maple shaft in terms of playability? I only ask, as the OP alluded to the fact that he did not want to invest a lot of time in adjusting to a significantly different type of shaft.
My own personal story is that, I gave up on using a CF shaft until I had an opportunity to play every day for three months, so invested the time to get used to it. I now have a larger shot range with CF on shots I had a real problem with, such as inside english and long draw shots.

I am just curious as to the difference in playability.
P.S. I have also heard nothing but amazing things about Richard Hsu as a cuemaker and a person.

 

[JorgenBlomseth]

Is a kielwood shaft closer to CF shaft or regular maple shaft in terms of playability? I only ask, as the OP alluded to the fact that he did not want to invest a lot of time in adjusting to a significantly different type of shaft.
My own personal story is that, I gave up on using a CF shaft until I had an opportunity to play every day for three months, so invested the time to get used to it. I now have a larger shot range with CF on shots I had a real problem with, such as inside english and long draw shots.

I am just curious as to the difference in playability.
P.S. I have also heard nothing but amazing things about Richard Hsu as a cuemaker and a person.

In my opinion it compares more to a maple shaft, but in terms of deflection and adjustments needed, it's closer to a CF shaft.
I feel that you have to strike much harder with a CF to get the action you want. That is not a problem with the Kielwood.
Gonna order a 12,3 mm soon to check on the difference from my 11,7 mm

 

[FastManners]

In my opinion it compares more to a maple shaft, but in terms of deflection and adjustments needed, it's closer to a CF shaft.
I feel that you have to strike much harder with a CF to get the action you want. That is not a problem with the Kielwood.
Gonna order a 12,3 mm soon to check on the difference from my 11,7 mm

Thank you Jorgen. I really appreciate the knowledgable opinion. I have a pretty jabby stroke, which I think is a big reason why I always had an issue with inside until I switched to carbon. I will have to give my friends kielwood shaft a try to see how it compares.

 

[1pocketguru]

Very similar story here. I can play with cf, but prefer wood by long shot. Was curious about keilwood shafts for a while, and ended up with a 60" Diveney cue with two of his keilwood shafts.

The shafts are play great, and are extremely stiff. There is next to no flex in the shafts. That felt weird to me when playing. Less deflection as well. Felt fine in my ungloved hands.

Tried the shafts on different cues. One of the shafts is quite heavier but all the weight is close to the joint so even with the heavier shaft the cues balance point felt butt heavy to me, when they are front heavy with my standard wood shafts.

Spent a few nights playing with them. Decided i prefer my solid maple shafts better. I will let the diveney go if somone asks for it. It played fine, just boils down to old dog and new tricks.

So it plays very stiff with almost no flex and is low deflection? Which is it? Those are polar opposite descriptions. It can't be "low deflection" and "stiff with no flex". Low deflection shafts refer to the cueball deflection, not that the shaft doesn't deflect. The shaft has to move out of the way on left and right English shots (I.e. deflect) so a stiff shaft is not "low deflection" or is "less deflection" but stiff does not equal low deflection. It could "feel" like it plays like a stiff or solid hit, but it needs to flex to be low deflection. Physics just won't nudge on that one.

 

[Benelli]

So it plays very stiff with almost no flex and is low deflection? Which is it? Those are polar opposite descriptions. It can't be "low deflection" and "stiff with no flex".

Hold up your description on how low deflection works makes zero sense when lensed through Carbon Fiber.

Are you saying CF is low deflection BECAUSE it "flexs" on hit?

I think you need to go back and read or watch all the Bob Meucci research on cue ball deflection

 

[AtLarge]

So it plays very stiff with almost no flex and is low deflection? Which is it? Those are polar opposite descriptions. It can't be "low deflection" and "stiff with no flex". Low deflection shafts refer to the cueball deflection, not that the shaft doesn't deflect. The shaft has to move out of the way on left and right English shots (I.e. deflect) so a stiff shaft is not "low deflection" or is "less deflection" but stiff does not equal low deflection. It could "feel" like it plays like a stiff or solid hit, but it needs to flex to be low deflection. Physics just won't nudge on that one.

Shaft Endmass and Stiffness Effects - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about the effects of shaft endmass and stiffness on squirt in pool and billiards.

drdavepoolinfo.com

Pool Cue Deflection Terminology - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions about pool cue deflection and stiffness terminology.

drdavepoolinfo.com

 

[Flakeandrun]

I have previously posted that CF shafts and my pool game do not align well. After playing original maple shafts for way longer than most players, making the switch to CF is just too bothersome. I do not play enough pool competitively to make the transition and pool now is played purely for the satisfaction I derive from playing well. I do not need to play better to improve my game. I really just need to avoid stroke flaws that happen and I just miss a shot I could have, and all too often, should have easily pocketed. When I miss, it sometimes is the easiest shot imaginable. I overstretch to reach a shot and still shoot it rather than use a bridge or play it opposite handed. That’s all on me for getting lazy and not respecting the table. I earned that by being careless or lackadaisical in my pre-shot routine.

Since I like playing with wood shafts versus synthetic material, I’ve been interested in getting a Kielwood shaft. The choices are vast as there are a lot of brands to consider and of course, there is always contacting my cue maker to build me one. So I am looking for suggestions on the best Kielwood shaft. Here’s what I want……a flat faced big pin joint, 12.75 mm, extended pro taper (15-16”), ferrule and min. Wt. of 4 ozs. The weight is important because I want this shaft to match the weight of the original shafts of my cues. I could even go up a few grams but going lighter would be in the wrong direction. I realize that torrifying lightens the wood so 4 ozs. weight Is unusual as most Kielwood shafts weighing that much are usually piloted. I need a flat faced wood shaft sans any receiver that would add to the weight.

Thanks for sharing your views about Kielwood shafts. Again, I have no interest in CF shafts so please avoid comparing CF and Kielwood. Anyone know whom is known for making the heaviest Kielwood shafts? Could a 12.5 mm shaft weigh 4.0 ozs. or is that diameter too thin? I want to maintain the weight proportionality of my cue shafts and cue butts so really 4.0 ozs is the min. weight I need in a Kielwood shaft. Price ranges I’ve seen range from low 200 dollars to $500 for most Kielwood shafts. Anyone have recommendations about which brand Kielwood shaft and reasons why?

Usually KW shafts come with weight bolts which are adjusted to your preference. The Hayakawa I have came with 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3 as an add on to its received weight 3.68 - I use with the 3.68 as it is and cannot fault it so far. It was given to me for free, and I am giving it an extended run. Think they are about $400+
Plays great, balanced well on my butt, feels smooth, finish is excellent (as can be expected from Japanese product), it's stiff without being rock hard. Would recommend.

 

[Flakeandrun]

I think you need to go back and read or watch all the Bob Meucci research on cue ball deflection

I recommend anyone reading 'research on cue ball deflection' to go and hit a few balls Not a single pro I've met has ever said more about their cue than they get paid to use it. Especially pros I've met playing with carbon.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Usually KW shafts come with weight bolts which are adjusted to your preference. The Hayakawa I have came with 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3 as an add on to its received weight 3.68 - I use with the 3.68 as it is and cannot fault it so far. It was given to me for free, and I am giving it an extended run. Think they are about $400+
Plays great, balanced well on my butt, feels smooth, finish is excellent (as can be expected from Japanese product), it's stiff without being rock hard. Would recommend.

I have seen pool cues come with adjustable weight bolts but I’ve not seen a cue shaft have that feature which at first blush
reaction sounds kinda strange. Now cue makers that do build Kielwood shafts may or may not core the front end of the shaft but when the shaft is cored, the inserted material isn’t usually adjustable. When the shaft is torrefied and not cored so it is just wood, the majority of KW shaft builders don’t seem to be able to build shafts that are at least 4 ozs. without having to add weight to the KW shaft’s collar. However, that is not adjustable weight and it cannot be changed as far as I know. I spoke with so many cue makers that told me they couldn’t build a heavier version KW shaft without adding weight to the shaft. For their sakes, I’ve left them unnamed but if they’ve read any of my posts about KW shafts, they know they gave me bad advice.

Fortunately, I never believed them and the 4 oz. KW shafts are sitting in my cue case that are 29” long, 12.6mm, and weigh 4.01 and 4.16 ozs. and the KW shaft is just tip, short ferrule and flat faced wood. Personally, if there is such a thing as a adjustable Kielwood shaft, I wonder how tight the insert fits to avoid any rattling but maybe you have played with one?

p.s. I did some Internet research on Hayakawa pool cues and apparently most are not weight adjustable for the shaft but cue model #258 is stated to be. But their website doesn’t describe it and instructions on the Internet for changing the weight of a shaft sounds like a removable insert for the threads like Ruchard Hsu uses on Tsunami 2.0 shafts. I think I’d just rather have Kielwood shafts that are anatomically identical to my cue maker’s original maple shafts and are the same exact weights that happen to be 4 ozs. or heavier with my pool cues. It always comes down to playing with cues you like the most.

 

[Flakeandrun]

I have seen pool cues come with adjustable weight bolts but I’ve not seen a cue shaft have that feature which at first blush
reaction sounds kinda strange. Now cue makers that do build Kielwood shafts may or may not core the front end of the shaft but when the shaft is fired, the inserted material isn’t usually adjustable. When the shaft is torrefied and not cored so it is just wood, the majority of KW shaft builders don’t seem to be able to build shafts that are at least 4 ozs. without having to add weight to the KW shaft’s collar. However, that is not adjustable weight and I cannot be changed as far as I know. I spoke with so many cue makers that told me they couldn’t build a heavier version KW shaft without adding weight to the shaft. For their sakes, I’ve left them unarmed but if they’ve read any of my posts about KW shafts, they know they gave me bad advice. Fortunately, I never believed them and the 4 oz. KW shafts are sitting in my cue case that are 29” long, 12.6mm, and weigh 4.01 and 4.16 ozs. and the KW shaft is just tip, short ferrule and flat faced wood. Personally, if there is such a thing as a adjustable Kielwood shaft, I wonder how tight the insert fits to avoid any rattling but maybe you have played with one?

Interesting. I know little about KW other than it is a heating process removing water and reacting with sugars in the wood. I too am interested in how they avoid rattling or problems with this adjustable bolt, though I'll likely never bother to find out, as I am happy playing with it at the current weight. Glad you found what you were looking for in the end.