APA 9-Ball Foul Question

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heater451

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Only did a little rules searching online, before deciding to post this, and found fouls resulting in Ball-In-Hand, but not regarding fouls and 'dead' balls. Also, some league guys consulted ChatGPT, but I've seen enough AI stuff to not really trust it for this kind of thing.

APA 9-Ball, a ball is potted, but the player leaves his cue tip on the table. The cue ball returns and hits the cue (shaft). Certainly, it's a foul, and ball-in-hand to the opponent, but does that make the potted ball dead? I am under the impression that it needs to be a scratch to invalidate the point, but also see the logic in "any foul committed during the shot" resulting in the ball being marked as dead.

Note: I'm hoping someone can cite an actual rule on this situation, but opinions are obviously gonna happen. :)
 
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heater451 said:
Thank you, but do you have a link to that? I have also seen a page with similar, "Any balls pocketed prior to the foul being called will be marked as “dead balls.” However, that sentence is in the middle of a paragraph describing hitting the wrong ball, with more about it needing to be called, but the shooter can essentially course-correct, if not stopped. https://inplaymagazine.com/apa-nine-ball-rules/
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Thank you for pointing out that that bullet point is out of place. Those bullets are about what happens when it's too late to call a foul, so the 9-Ball bullet point is totally irrelevant there (because there is no foul). I will make a suggestion to APA to move it to the 9-Ball bullet point at the end of the fouls section. Look for it in the next edition, due out in the middle of 2026. :cool:
 
It’s common sense.. if a foul occurs on the shot you don’t get the point in any situation .
 
heater451 said:
Only did a little rules searching online, before deciding to post this, and found fouls resulting in Ball-In-Hand, but not regarding fouls and 'dead' balls. Also, some league guys consulted ChatGPT, but I've seen enough AI stuff to not really trust it for this kind of thing.

APA 9-Ball, a ball is potted, but the player leaves his cue tip on the table. The cue ball returns and hits the cue (shaft). Certainly, it's a foul, and ball-in-hand to the opponent, but does that make the potted ball dead? I am under the impression that it needs to be a scratch to invalidate the point, but also see the logic in "any foul committed during the shot" resulting in the ball being marked as dead.

Note: I'm hoping someone can cite an actual rule on this situation, but opinions are obviously gonna happen. :)
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Here is the team manual, which includes the game rules for both 8 ball and 9 ball:

Go to the bottom of Page 65, where it explains how to score for 9 ball. There, you will find this:
  • Dead Balls: Record any balls not credited to either player (singles) or team (doubles), such as ball(s) made during a scratch, ball(s) made during a foul, or on the table when the 9-ball is made or a stalemate occurs. The 9-ball is never a dead ball. It is spotted.
The bold and italic are added by me, for emphasis.

I'm assuming that you understand the above is based upon the rule that altering the path of a moving cue ball is a foul, which you did acknowledge. The commission of a foul during the shot makes that pocketed ball a dead ball, and ball-in-hand for the opponent.
 
skor said:
What is a dead ball?
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APA 9-Ball is a points game--2 points for the 9, and 1 point for each of the others. A "dead" ball is one that is not scored for either player.

For example, if you break and sink a single ball you get 1 point, but if you scratch as well, then the potted ball is considered "dead" and no point awarded. If you happen to sink several and scratch, then all of them are dead.

My issue, was that I could not find an APA rule that specified that a ball would be dead in the case of a non-scratch foul--which I guess is really is a question of whether there is actually a difference in a scratch foul and a non-scratch foul....
 
Rickhem said:
Here is the team manual, which includes the game rules for both 8 ball and 9 ball:

Go to the bottom of Page 65, where it explains how to score for 9 ball. There, you will find this:
  • Dead Balls: Record any balls not credited to either player (singles) or team (doubles), such as ball(s) made during a scratch, ball(s) made during a foul, or on the table when the 9-ball is made or a stalemate occurs. The 9-ball is never a dead ball. It is spotted.
The bold and italic are added by me, for emphasis.

I'm assuming that you understand the above is based upon the rule that altering the path of a moving cue ball is a foul, which you did acknowledge. The commission of a foul during the shot makes that pocketed ball a dead ball, and ball-in-hand for the opponent.
Click to expand...
Absolutely what I was after. Thank you!
 
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