At what would you question “non obvious” call pocketing?
- Thread starter Kjackxon
- Start date
As I read your initial post, he called the 10b, and called the pocket. He then “missed the 10b completely” hit the 15 and caromed the 10b. Aside from the fact that he might well have been playing the carom all along, he’s called the ball and pocket and made the ball in the pocket.
In terms of when to call it, the safest course is to call all banks, caroms and combos. In some rulesets (such as BCA) there is no such thing as an obvious combo. In others it might be possible that a combo is so obvious that it doesn’t need to be called, but I personally always call it to avoid any dispute.
True this!
First reasonable explanation for this. Out of courtesy, please tell me what you’re doing, and leave me to interpret your actions. I’d rather keep the game moving!
I’ve read more of your comments and I now understand your confusion. When people (like me in my post above) are saying you should always call a combo (or bank or carom), we don’t mean you have to use those words or anything like that.
What we mean is that when you are shooting those shots the result is not “obvious” under some rule sets so you need to indicate which ball and pocket you are calling. So if the 10 and 15 are both near the corner pocket and I’m going to play either a combo or a carom I have to tell you which ball I’m playing. “10b corner pocket” is all I need to say. As an aside, if the combo is wired for the corner or the 10b is hanging and I’m clearly going to play the combo or carom into that pocket (and not some other pocket), just saying “10b” is sufficient.
You need to find a coach or someone with infinite patience that will explain every detail of what they're doing to you.
NOBODY is obligated to do this for you, and expecting it is going to piss people off.
Their ONLY obligation is to call the ball and pocket WHEN IT IS NOT OBVIOUS. And only then.
NOBODY is obligated to do this for you, and expecting it is going to piss people off.
Their ONLY obligation is to call the ball and pocket WHEN IT IS NOT OBVIOUS. And only then.
Its ball and pocket. How hard is that?I got it!
It’s the interpretation and not the rule. You’re telling me that you don’t need to call combos. I get it!
As has been mentioned, doesn't matter as long as the called ball went into the called pocket and he didn't hit an opponents ball first.
This can in rare cases be a problem.
If the ball is close to rail and you call safe, I’m going to check if the ball is frozen. If you say “bank side” and the angle is such that if you shoot it the CB will hit a rail, I’m not going to delay the game by checking if it’s frozen. If you then just roll up to the ball I’m going to be pissed.
Same if the issue is whether I need to watch if you hit a rail even when it’s not frozen.
Hey Hey KJ,
Consider this scenario:
The cue ball is in the middle of the table and you are setup for a runout. Except, the 8 ball is welded to the 15 in the rack area.
You notice that the 10 ball is hanging in the jaws of the corner pocket.
You could stun off the 15 in the rack area and open up your problem area while pocketing the 10.
What is the call?
10 ball corner pocket.
You hit the 15 first and separate it from the 8 while you pocket the 10 in the corner.
Good shot?
Consider this scenario:
The cue ball is in the middle of the table and you are setup for a runout. Except, the 8 ball is welded to the 15 in the rack area.
You notice that the 10 ball is hanging in the jaws of the corner pocket.
You could stun off the 15 in the rack area and open up your problem area while pocketing the 10.
What is the call?
10 ball corner pocket.
You hit the 15 first and separate it from the 8 while you pocket the 10 in the corner.
Good shot?
Did you know Cocomo?
His method was deception. Watching him like a hawk was required. He had multiple methods of pushing boundaries. One of which was to avoid the " is it frozen " look.
So yeah you gotta know Who you are playing. I prefer an honesty reputation.
TheWacoKid
The Waco Kid
The sentence (“Bank shots and combination shots are not considered obvious, and care should be taken in calling both the object ball and the intended pocket.”)
the last part is all that is important and what counts. they are just telling you that combos are not obvious, only ball and pocket matter
Is the intent obvious?
Yes
Is the 15 ball first contact?
Yes
You could have whiffed and the hit four corners. If the 10 drops then it’s a good shot.
Not calling the 15-10 combo leads me to stop and ask the question.
Delays the match but it’s good.
No he didn’t call the pocket. Initially he called “10 ball” to which I asked where? He told that I should have known that he was going for the corner pocket. I told him “No - Not with the 15 partially covering the 10 ball.
I guess that we need an explanation of what is obvious.
What would you say if someone had told you that a covered ball was obvious?
So we can agree that it’s a good shot.
I commend you for looking up the rule for yourself.
WPA 8 Ball Rule 1.7 STANDARD CALL SHOT
…Details of the shot, such as cushions struck or other balls contacted or pocketed are irrelevant…
Why then would you feel compelled to stop the game and ask the question you already know the answer to?
You’re going to confuse him, and he’s going to think he’s justified in questioning if someone should call a carom or combo. Which you know of course you never have to call in any rule set aside from bar rules.
Let’s go back to your original post:
In this case, my opponent is shooting the 10 ball into the corner pocket. The 15 ball is partially blocking the 10 ball. He calls out “10 ball”, at which point I ask which pocket. He tells me the corner pocket, then proceeds to completely miss the 10 ball. The cue ball caroms off the 15, then nudges the 10 ball into the pocket. asked him “Did you intentionally combo the 10 ball?” He replied “I call my ball and pocket - doesn’t matter how it got there.”
I didn’t argue, and I didn’t call him off the shot when he answered my first question. It does bring up a point. Was I justified to have called the foul as he did not specify the combo? I know he call the ball and pocket. It’s just that the shot wasn’t obvious. When I miss my called ball, it’s ball in hand to my opponent no question.”
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So, after you questioned him he called the ball and the pocket. Yet you still asked him if he intentionally combo’d the 10b. That is irrelevant, and his answer to you was correct.
You further asked if you were justified in calling the “foul” as he did not specify the combo. As has been explained to you (a) its never a foul (at most would be loss of turn); and (b) no, you weren’t justified in complaining or trying for loss of turn because he didn’t say the magic words of combo or carom - ball and pocket is enough. I pointed you to the BCA rule directly on this point.
You are now asking a different question - whether you were justified in asking which pocket once he said 10b. I can’t answer that without seeing the layout. Take this example in the diagram below. If I am eyeing this up and call “5b”, and you ask “which pocket”, I will probably tell you “that corner” but I will think you’re odd to ask me. Because every serious player in the room knows which pocket I’m playing it in.
That’s not to say there aren’t combos and caroms where the pocket isn’t obvious - which is why I say I’d need to see the shot.
Yeah, it took me a few more posts from him to understand what he was really asking. I thought he was asking if you have to call the intended ball and pocket on a combo or whether those can be obvious, so I tried to answer that question. I later realized he was asking if you need to say “combo” or carom when you’ve already called the ball and pocket (obviously not).
Whether he now understands what I’ve tried to clarify I don’t know.