Sofia Mast "retiring?" The state of American pool

fuggles said:
She is 16. I don't know what her income has to do with it. But anyway I disagree.
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Income is precisely the difference between pro and amateur. That said, the distinction in all sports has been reduced/ diminished in recent years in all sports. In pool there really has never been one. Old school rules you take a dime in prize money you are a pro. All pool tournaments pay cash. So if you win $40 in a $5 weekly, you are a professional in the old school strict sense. Pool hasn’t done it that way, and maybe for sensible reasons.

The rules in other sports have loosened over the years, and now with college N.I.L. money we see a decrease in hypocrisy but an increase in professionalism. I basically don’t care regarding pool or Savannah, but in any halfway reasonable definition of pro vs amateur, she would be a pro IMO. Plenty of players in other sports have turned pro young, age and actual income aren’t really the right measure IMO. But in pool there really isn’t a standard, so I guess she can play any tournament that will let her play under their rules.
 
JPB2 said:
Income is precisely the difference between pro and amateur. That said, the distinction in all sports has been reduced/ diminished in recent years in all sports. In pool there really has never been one. Old school rules you take a dime in prize money you are a pro. All pool tournaments pay cash. So if you win $40 in a $5 weekly, you are a professional in the old school strict sense. Pool hasn’t done it that way, and maybe for sensible reasons.

The rules in other sports have loosened over the years, and now with college N.I.L. money we see a decrease in hypocrisy but an increase in professionalism. I basically don’t care regarding pool or Savannah, but in any halfway reasonable definition of pro vs amateur, she would be a pro IMO. Plenty of players in other sports have turned pro young, age and actual income aren’t really the right measure IMO. But in pool there really isn’t a standard, so I guess she can play any tournament that will let her play under their rules.
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I don't care about whether Sav is considered pro or not either. This thread started when someone said they were surprized she was allowed to play in the Junior Nationals as a pro. Well there is not distiction or restriction for BEF. And I said I don't consider her a pro. So here we are.

To your points NIL is for college athletes. And for the major sports. Outside of track and field, futbol, and maybe tennis, there are no professional athletes in sport under adult age. NFL, MLB, NBA all require players to be of age. And these sports provide guaranteed income under contracts. Comparing pool to this is ridiculous. I stand by my definition, which is, is the person making a living at the sport? Sav clearly isn't so that is where I am.
 
fuggles said:
I don't care about whether Sav is considered pro or not either. This thread started when someone said they were surprized she was allowed to play in the Junior Nationals as a pro. Well there is not distiction or restriction for BEF. And I said I don't consider her a pro. So here we are.

To your points NIL is for college athletes. And for the major sports. Outside of track and field, futbol, and maybe tennis, there are no professional athletes in sport under adult age. NFL, MLB, NBA all require players to be of age. And these sports provide guaranteed income under contracts. Comparing pool to this is ridiculous. I stand by my definition, which is, is the person making a living at the sport? Sav clearly isn't so that is where I am.
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  • Cavan Sullivan: The 16-year-old Philadelphia Union and U.S. soccer prodigy made MLS history by signing the largest homegrown contract in the league's history.
  • McKenna Whitham: A 15-year-old phenom who made waves after signing as a professional in the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) with Gotham FC.
  • Lamine Yamal: The Spanish international, who recently made a massive impact in the FIFA World Cup and European Championships, began breaking records and winning league titles with FC Barcelona at just 15 years old.
Are these folks amateurs?
 
dtroup64 said:
  • Cavan Sullivan: The 16-year-old Philadelphia Union and U.S. soccer prodigy made MLS history by signing the largest homegrown contract in the league's history.
  • McKenna Whitham: A 15-year-old phenom who made waves after signing as a professional in the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL) with Gotham FC.
  • Lamine Yamal: The Spanish international, who recently made a massive impact in the FIFA World Cup and European Championships, began breaking records and winning league titles with FC Barcelona at just 15 years old.
Are these folks amateurs?
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If they still live with their parents, apparently not.

I think I see fuggles' point. Savannah is earning money but not technically supporting herself (supposedly, as I have not clue what that family dynamic is, and suspect he doesn't either). But that distinction is irrelevant. If your job pays you money, then you can claim that job title. And she probably does better, financially, than a good amount of players who would actually fit his definition of pro.

Everyone here knows who she is. This thread, which I started, was about Sofia and it's become about Savannah. Savannah's been in mainstream media, she has a social media following, she has always had sponsorships in excess of her playing ability, all as a result of having always done well getting publicity. Many players could take notes, as I would hazard a guess that Savannah's sponsorship haul is top-5 amongst US players. And not just the women, all players.

To not call her a pro because she doesn't pay rent or a mortgage is silly, to me, but there's that saying, "we'll have to agree to disagree."
 
Rocket354 said:
If they still live with their parents, apparently not.

I think I see fuggles' point. Savannah is earning money but not technically supporting herself (supposedly, as I have not clue what that family dynamic is, and suspect he doesn't either). But that distinction is irrelevant. If your job pays you money, then you can claim that job title. And she probably does better, financially, than a good amount of players who would actually fit his definition of pro.

Everyone here knows who she is. This thread, which I started, was about Sofia and it's become about Savannah. Savannah's been in mainstream media, she has a social media following, she has always had sponsorships in excess of her playing ability, all as a result of having always done well getting publicity. Many players could take notes, as I would hazard a guess that Savannah's sponsorship haul is top-5 amongst US players. And not just the women, all players.

To not call her a pro because she doesn't pay rent or a mortgage is silly, to me, but there's that saying, "we'll have to agree to disagree."
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It is hard to talk about one without mentioning the other. They are the top two junior women and the future of women's pro pool in the US. A great rivalry as they are so similar in speed.

Savannah gets more exposure due to the fact that she travels the country year round to play tournaments.

I wish Sofia traveled more to play tournaments but I think she is making the better choice to focus on a career. Hopefully she continues to attend WPBA events and play. Wish them both well in their respective pool journeys.
 
Rocket354 said:
If they still live with their parents, apparently not.

I think I see fuggles' point. Savannah is earning money but not technically supporting herself (supposedly, as I have not clue what that family dynamic is, and suspect he doesn't either). But that distinction is irrelevant. If your job pays you money, then you can claim that job title. And she probably does better, financially, than a good amount of players who would actually fit his definition of pro.

Everyone here knows who she is. This thread, which I started, was about Sofia and it's become about Savannah. Savannah's been in mainstream media, she has a social media following, she has always had sponsorships in excess of her playing ability, all as a result of having always done well getting publicity. Many players could take notes, as I would hazard a guess that Savannah's sponsorship haul is top-5 amongst US players. And not just the women, all players.

To not call her a pro because she doesn't pay rent or a mortgage is silly, to me, but there's that saying, "we'll have to agree to disagree."
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How would you know any of this, unless you are her parent?

For all we know, she is supporting her family.
 
fuggles said:
I don't care about whether Sav is considered pro or not either. This thread started when someone said they were surprized she was allowed to play in the Junior Nationals as a pro. Well there is not distiction or restriction for BEF. And I said I don't consider her a pro. So here we are.

To your points NIL is for college athletes. And for the major sports. Outside of track and field, futbol, and maybe tennis, there are no professional athletes in sport under adult age. NFL, MLB, NBA all require players to be of age. And these sports provide guaranteed income under contracts. Comparing pool to this is ridiculous. I stand by my definition, which is, is the person making a living at the sport? Sav clearly isn't so that is where I am.
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44 States now allow NIL for high school athletes
 
vintagecollectibles831 said:
I went to a BCA Qualifier, for the junior nationals as a kid, and in their letter, it stated that Pro's were not allowed to play. Sav took 2nd in the US Open, and she is not a Pro? That was not Juniors only tournament. Many female Pros played in it.
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Go to the BEF website and look for the qualifications to play in the Junior Nationals. No mention of "pro". But it should be obvious that if there was a pro restriction and they thought she was pro she wouldn't have been allowed to play. Yes?
 
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