When is a 5/16x18 not a 5/16x18? (Vintage-y cue question)

T

tearthecloth

New member
Hi folks. I recently bought an Adam "Jim Rempe" cue, which I'm to understand is from the early 80s. It's got a 5/16x18 piloted joint pin, and its shaft screws easily onto my Valhalla cue that has a 5/16x18 pin, other than the fact that the Valhalla is not piloted.

However, the Valhalla's shaft screws onto the Adam only with a considerable amount of effort in the last 1/8-1/4 inch, like it gets really tight and you have to put some muscle on it to get the faces of the joints to finally touch.

As far as I can see (and measure with calipers) the Adam's pin is basically the same specs, so what gives? Have any of you folks experienced this?
 
tearthecloth said:
Hi folks. I recently bought an Adam "Jim Rempe" cue, which I'm to understand is from the early 80s. It's got a 5/16x18 piloted joint pin, and its shaft screws easily onto my Valhalla cue that has a 5/16x18 pin, other than the fact that the Valhalla is not piloted.

However, the Valhalla's shaft screws onto the Adam only with a considerable amount of effort in the last 1/8-1/4 inch, like it gets really tight and you have to put some muscle on it to get the faces of the joints to finally touch.

As far as I can see (and measure with calipers) the Adam's pin is basically the same specs, so what gives? Have any of you folks experienced this?
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We talk about this all the time and my anseer is always the same
It depends where the screws are made.
Valhalla Cues are sold thru Viking,
BUT
They are not made by Viking. They are inexpensive sticker Cues that are Manufactured in China!
Quite a few Companies use the Import service now, to help maintain the Livelihood of the Company.
 
Michael Webb said:
They are not made by Viking. They are inexpensive sticker Cues that are Manufactured in China!
Quite a few Companies use the Import service now, to help maintain the Livelihood of the Company.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah I get that, but the question is really what is different about that Adam screw that is 5/16x18 but new shafts screw too tightly to it? The Valhalla was an example but I have other modern 5/16x18 shafts and they all fit the same way. Are the threads on vintage screws known to be cut differently or something?
 
tearthecloth said:
Oh yeah I get that, but the question is really what is different about that Adam screw that is 5/16x18 but new shafts screw too tightly to it? The Valhalla was an example but I have other modern 5/16x18 shafts and they all fit the same way. Are the threads on vintage screws known to be cut differently or something?
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Rough guess, the pitch between the threads seems thicker. I've noticed it to but never really cared about it .
All screws unfortunately are not the same.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Yes, I had it backward in my stupid head.
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Haha no, actually that's a really good clue, appreciate it. I went and measured the pin and tried measuring the length of the threaded portion inside the shafts' inserts and it does seem like the pin could be juuuust long enough for it to be an issue. Also, compared to other 5/16x18 pins I have, the Adam one doesn't have I guess what I'd call a "ball" end, but rather the threads go all the way to the tip of the pin.

The inserts themselves have enough length inside <insert crude jokes here>... Is it generally possible for a cuemaker or machinist to tap a few more threads into the insert? Or, could the threads on the end of the pin be taken off to make a "ball" end? (Another idea I just had was to make a spacer to put in between the butt and shaft to take up that last 1/8"...)

Edit: I see hand-operated taps on mcmaster-carr, would those potentially work to cut a few threads into a brass insert?

(Full context: I have another shaft I bought for the Adam but it has the same tightness issue, and I'd like to make the shaft work if possible.)

One more edit: I tried 3d-printing a 2mm spacer and... it works! Saves me $50 for a tap haha (nevermind what the 3d printer cost...)
 
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tearthecloth said:
Haha no, actually that's a really good clue, appreciate it. I went and measured the pin and tried measuring the length of the threaded portion inside the shafts' inserts and it does seem like the pin could be juuuust long enough for it to be an issue. Also, compared to other 5/16x18 pins I have, the Adam one doesn't have I guess what I'd call a "ball" end, but rather the threads go all the way to the tip of the pin.

The inserts themselves have enough length inside <insert crude jokes here>... Is it generally possible for a cuemaker or machinist to tap a few more threads into the insert? Or, could the threads on the end of the pin be taken off to make a "ball" end? (Another idea I just had was to make a spacer to put in between the butt and shaft to take up that last 1/8"...)

Edit: I see hand-operated taps on mcmaster-carr, would those potentially work to cut a few threads into a brass insert?

(Full context: I have another shaft I bought for the Adam but it has the same tightness issue, and I'd like to make the shaft work if possible.)

One more edit: I tried 3d-printing a 2mm spacer and... it works! Saves me $50 for a tap haha (nevermind what the 3d printer cost...)
Click to expand...

Any UNC 5/16-18 bottoming tap *should* be able to cut a few more threads if my theory is correct, but I didn't consider that it had an insert, so it probably would not work. The ball nose might be compressing the wood beyond the insert, in which case it would need to be bored a bit. Could likely bore the little needed with a 17/64 drill bit by hand (no power tools).

That sounds really high for a tap, tho. I love that you know about McMaster, but they are spendy. ACE hardware would have the tap for under twenty, should be under ten, but who knows anymore.

The spacer is a fine idea. PLA has great compressive properties.
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Any UNC 5/16-18 bottoming tap *should* be able to cut a few more threads if my theory is correct, but I didn't consider that it had an insert, so it probably would not work. The ball nose might be compressing the wood beyond the insert, in which case it would need to be bored a bit. Could likely bore the little needed with a 17/64 drill bit by hand (no power tools).

That sounds really high for a tap, tho. I love that you know about McMaster, but they are spendy. ACE hardware would have the tap for under twenty, should be under ten, but who knows anymore.

The spacer is a fine idea. PLA has great compressive properties.
Click to expand...

By "beyond the insert" are you saying the insert would have a hole in the end? As far as I can see, the insert is closed inside (all brass), and in fact that might make it too shallow to add threads... In any case, good tip about ACE haha.
 
tearthecloth said:
By "beyond the insert" are you saying the insert would have a hole in the end? As far as I can see, the insert is closed inside (all brass), and in fact that might make it too shallow to add threads... In any case, good tip about ACE haha.
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If the insert isn't an open cylinder, then the bottoming tap may work. The inserts I used to use were open cylinders. Regardless, a machinist could likely drill the end of the insert without harming the existing threads.

If you aren't concerned with originality, the Adam screw could be modified slightly (shortened, or taper/round the end).
 
DeeDeeCues said:
If the insert isn't an open cylinder, then the bottoming tap may work. The inserts I used to use were open cylinders. Regardless, a machinist could likely drill the end of the insert without harming the existing threads.

If you aren't concerned with originality, the Adam screw could be modified slightly (shortened, or taper/round the end).
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm not sure how much I care about originality.. The cue is very cool but it's not (yet?? haha) particularly valuable. Who would I go to for modifying the pin? A machine shop?
 
tearthecloth said:
To be honest I'm not sure how much I care about originality.. The cue is very cool but it's not (yet?? haha) particularly valuable. Who would I go to for modifying the pin? A machine shop?
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Anyone who has the ability to hold the cue in a lathe with the pin exposed can do it. I've modified many in a lathe with a hand file. You can do it by hand with a file, but it is harder to get professional looking results. Not impossible, just harder. A steady hand and a benchtop belt sander works also
 
DeeDeeCues said:
Anyone who has the ability to hold the cue in a lathe with the pin exposed can do it. I've modified many in a lathe with a hand file. You can do it by hand with a file, but it is harder to get professional looking results. Not impossible, just harder. A steady hand and a benchtop belt sander works also
Click to expand...

Hey I just wanted to say, I really appreciate all your input!
 
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