Van Boening vs Appleton

TwinkleToes

TwinkleToes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No matter how much I try to like the game of pool...I just can't do it! I dearly enjoy the physics, the geometry and the skill necessary to move the cue ball around the table, while pocketing balls with precision but...the luck factor just drives me nuts.

Appleton got the rolls, Van Boening didn't!

I'm not complaining as if we (the US) are unlucky because sometimes it's us who get the rolls.

I'm just saying that the fact that there is so much luck in the game of pool, makes it where I just can't put my heart into the game like I would like.

Yes...yes, I know, 14.1 doesn't have as much luck and neither does One Pocket but...for those of us who play mostly 9 or 10 ball...and we are the type who finds enjoyment from games which have very little to do with luck, we just have to find another sport or game which has less luck involved.

Remember now, I feel that all luck balances out and that the US gets just as many good rolls...or bad, as Europe. So, it's not that I am saying we are unlucky, just that to really love the game of pool, you have to be a person who doesn't mind playing, or watching a game in which luck plays a major role.
 
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Double-Dave

Double-Dave

Developing cue-addict
Silver Member
You just have to change your mindset from luck being something bad to a little luck being what makes it exciting.
In most matches we know who is the better player but we don't know who will win. The rolls play their part and that
is a good thing. Otherwise just give first place to Niels, Shane or Daz and forget actually playing the tournaments.

gr. Dave
 
sharkmate

sharkmate

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
World Snooker -VS- Lucky Pool?

As far as cue sports go these days I agree that they keep changing the rules to minimize the luck factor. However, watching the "TOP" World Snooker players never ceases to amaze me. Try watching a professional snooker match and you will be amazed too.:thumbup:
 
TwinkleToes

TwinkleToes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Double-Dave,

I cannot disagree with anything you said! However...I think you demonstrate what I was talking about.

It's great if you find the luck factor adding to the excitement and that entertains you.

For me...as a spectator or a player, I find it extremely frustrating.

I think the old saying, "to each his own" would be applicable here.

I feel I would be wrong to say that others should find enjoyment in what I find enjoyment in.

I guess that is why some of us like golf or basketball or football or pool or darts or tennis or whatever game we find our passion in and...we tend to be bored with games which others find fascinating.

To say that I am absolutely fascinated by the physics, geometry and skill necessary to play at a world class level, would be an understatement.

At the same time, the frustration of playing pool in tournaments or watching it played by world class players, and seeing that quite often, the fellow who outplayed his competitor, ends up losing because of getting unfortunate rolls, is starting to exceed the enjoyment I get from playing and watching the game.

I certainly respect your perspective though and actually admire you that you can appreciate the luck factor adding to the drama of a match.

Thanks for your comments!
 
victorl

victorl

Where'd my stroke go?
Silver Member
I don't think you can really say that a player outplayed his opponent if he lost control of the match to the point where a few rolls here and there cost him the match.

Also, personally, I don't believe in luck, and instead see it as uncertainty. Some shots, like break shots and kick shots come with a degree of uncertainty and randomness that makes the game interesting as nobody really knows what the outcome will be.
But great players will always play their shots in a way that is most likely to give a favorable outcome and that in itself is a skill that comes with experience. What we see as a lucky shot may have even been considered as a possible outcome and factored into the decision-making process. So there is more to it than just being "fortunate". Just ask Efren.
 
TwinkleToes

TwinkleToes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Efren understood it perhaps...better than any of his peers! I suggest that is why he said, more than any other player I can recall, after winning many of his tournaments, "I was lucky!"
 
Bigtruck

Bigtruck

Capt Diff Lock
Gold Member
Silver Member
TwinkleToes said:
Efren understood it perhaps...better than any of his peers! I suggest that is why he said, more than any other player I can recall, after winning many of his tournaments, "I was lucky!"
Click to expand...

Rarely does random luck come into play. The player at the table made it do that. His mind directed his body to move that cue a certain way based on input from the senses which propelled the cue ball and created a problem or advantage.

This is why we keep coming back for more tuning and abuse. We really want to just blame it on "being lucky" or "unlucky" but in reality we made it happen.

Humans LOVE games with pitfalls and dangers lurking. Games where the unexpected happens, where physics seem to be defied. Take all that out and all you have is......boring.

Carry on,

Ray
 
TwinkleToes

TwinkleToes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rarely does random luck come into play. The player at the table made it do that. His mind directed his body to move that cue a certain way based on input from the senses which propelled the cue ball and created a problem or advantage.
Click to expand...

Ray, if what you said about his mind directing his body to move the cue in a certain way is true...then making the statement that "rarely does random luck come into play" would be incorrect...since what the ball does is ALWAYS the result of what that player made the cue do.

Instead of rarely...you should have said, NEVER, EVER does random luck come into play if you believe what you said about his mind.

If I accept what you said about the mind, then I would also believe that when a person is trying to hit an 8 but rolls a 7...bad luck had absolutely nothing to do with him throwing a 7 because it was his mind that made him release the dice the way he did.

...or, I can accept that indeed luck (the fact that events beyond our precise control happen) does come into play in virtually everything we do. And because that is true, the amount of luck varies from one situation to the next.

We...as humans, either find entertainment or frustration from the luck factor and gravitate to the luck factor...or lack thereof, based upon our individual desires.
 
TwinkleToes

TwinkleToes

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ray...I think you usually refer to it as "no love"...when someone doesn't get the roll after hitting a nice shot.

I'm not talking about anything other than that! Sometimes you get the "love", sometimes you don't!

There are other games/sports where there is not so much left to chance. Pool is just as good as any of those but pool happens to be a game where luck (rolls, love) has more to do with the outcomes than other games.
 
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cashin

cashin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Appleton bragged after beating SVB that he had beaten Shane the last 8 times they have played. Appleton is a great player but I think that remark was uncalled for. Just my opinion.
TwinkleToes said:
No matter how much I try to like the game of pool...I just can't do it! I dearly enjoy the physics, the geometry and the skill necessary to move the cue ball around the table, while pocketing balls with precision but...the luck factor just drives me nuts.

Appleton got the rolls, Van Boening didn't!

I'm not complaining as if we (the US) are unlucky because sometimes it's us who get the rolls.

I'm just saying that the fact that there is so much luck in the game of pool, makes it where I just can't put my heart into the game like I would like.

Yes...yes, I know, 14.1 doesn't have as much luck and neither does One Pocket but...for those of us who play mostly 9 or 10 ball...and we are the type who finds enjoyment from games which have very little to do with luck, we just have to find another sport or game which has less luck involved.

Remember now, I feel that all luck balances out and that the US gets just as many good rolls...or bad, as Europe. So, it's not that I am saying we are unlucky, just that to really love the game of pool, you have to be a person who doesn't mind playing, or watching a game in which luck plays a major role.
Click to expand...
 
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