Rule Question: Using another ball to determine clearance

Kevin Lindstrom · Feb 20, 2019

Is there a written rule stating the penalty for using another ball that has been pocketed to measure clearance distance between balls or between ball and rail prior to a player taking his/her shot. I think it is general knowledge that this practice is not allowed but I was wondering if it is documented somewhere in a set of rules?

Thanks

Kevin

MattPoland · Feb 20, 2019

Here’s the CSI/BCAPL rule...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Inaction · Feb 20, 2019

I better cancel my custom cue order. It was to have a ruler design on it.

Nostroke · Feb 20, 2019

MattPoland said:
Here’s the CSI/BCAPL rule...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

As stated, those are just CSI/BCA league rules (which are often better and clearer than the official WPA rules) 'Official rules for the rest of the world may be different.

garczar · Feb 20, 2019

Kevin Lindstrom said:
Is there a written rule stating the penalty for using another ball that has been pocketed to measure clearance distance between balls or between ball and rail prior to a player taking his/her shot. I think it is general knowledge that this practice is not allowed but I was wondering if it is documented somewhere in a set of rules?

Thanks

Kevin

That's been the rule as long(40yrs) that i've been playing.

MattPoland · Feb 20, 2019

Nostroke said:
As stated, those are just CSI/BCA league rules (which are often better and clearer than the official WPA rules) 'Official rules for the rest of the world may be different.

WPA is less explicit but has generally the same rule. I’ve watched a Matchroom ref call a foul on Karl Boyes for “measuring” with the cueball but then decide to overrule his own decision upon realizing Karl was trying to “place” the cueball in the gap and not measure the gap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Kevin Lindstrom · Feb 20, 2019

MattPoland said:
Here’s the CSI/BCAPL rule...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Matt do you know what page number this rule is located. Thanks for your help as well.

Kevin

Nostroke · Feb 20, 2019

MattPoland said:
WPA is less explicit but has generally the same rule. I’ve watched a Matchroom ref call a foul on Karl Boyes for “measuring” with the cueball but then decide to overrule his own decision upon realizing Karl was trying to “place” the cueball in the gap and not measure the gap.

I saw that match also. And the WPA rule cited does not address meassuring with your fingers, fist etc so Im asssuming that is allowed

Pete · Feb 20, 2019

I didn't know you couldn't use your fingers to measure that distance (like you do for the one rail kick of the rail into the pocket)...

garczar · Feb 20, 2019

Kevin Lindstrom said:
Matt do you know what page number this rule is located. Thanks for your help as well.

Kevin

Section 1-3-g, page 23. Equipment.https://www.playcsipool.com/bcapl-rules.html

MattPoland · Feb 20, 2019

Kevin Lindstrom said:
Matt do you know what page number this rule is located. Thanks for your help as well.

Kevin

http://www.playcsipool.com/uploads/7/3/5/9/7359673/official_rules_of_csi__170714_.pdf

Page Number 24 (PDF Page 25)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

lorider · Feb 20, 2019

When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.

MattPoland · Feb 20, 2019

lorider said:
When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.

This is what I see for APA. Similar to WPA. I think the argument should be that the intended purpose for any ball is not to serve as a measuring device.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

ChrisinNC · Feb 20, 2019

lorider said:
When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.

It is clearly not legal - your former league operator is wrong. Another foul you don't see called much is using your cue stick on the pool table as a measuring device for a bank or kick shot, or any shot for that matter. It's OK as long as you are holding on to your cue, but as soon as you let go of your cue laying on the table, it is a foul. I've seen it called and a knowledgeable referee will uphold that call.

dimeshooter · Feb 20, 2019

Rules Question

Can I assume using your cue to measure rail first shots would also be illegal? I see players (myself included) do this all the time.

wrickyb · Feb 20, 2019

ChrisinNC said:
It is clearly not legal - your former league operator is wrong. Another foul you don't see called much is using your cue stick on the pool table as a measuring device for a bank or kick shot, or any shot for that matter. It's OK as long as you are holding on to your cue, but as soon as you let go of your cue laying on the table, it is a foul. I've seen it called and a knowledgeable referee will uphold that call.

Unfortunately that is not true in all rule sets. It is not a foul to put your stick on the table with out keeping your hand on it in APA, BCAPL and USAPL

For the BCAPL see page 80 in the CSI - BCAPL
1. Situation: Player A lays their cue on the table to help line up a shot, then uses a second cue, a mechanical bridge, or other equipment to assist as well
Ruling: Foul. Only a single cue, held in the hand or not, may be used.

Held in the had OR NOT (means you can lay it down)

It is a foul in the WPA rules

MattPoland · Feb 20, 2019

dimeshooter said:
Can I assume using your cue to measure rail first shots would also be illegal? I see players (myself included) do this all the time.

It’s okay in BCAPL. Page 24.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

DynoDan · Feb 20, 2019

I am puzzled why any sanctioning organization would decide to legitimize what has always been considered ‘unsportsmanlike conduct’? Though using your cue to gauge/sight while in hand is often overlooked, laying it down on the table to line up a kick shot obviously qualifies as ‘illegal equipment use’.
When playing 14.1 on a table without a drawn rack outline, it is generally acceptable to hover over the rack area with the triangle, but laying it down turns it into a ‘measuring device’, which qualifies as ‘unintended use” (?).

justadub · Feb 20, 2019

lorider said:
When I get off work today I am going to look up what apa states. My former league operator said it was legal to use a pocketed ball....the current league operator says its not.

My LO says its illegal. I don't recall seeing it in the manual, but that doesn't mean that its not in there

pwd72s · Feb 20, 2019

What about using a cue to measure mirror image? I've seen SVB do it in tournament play with a ref watching, nothing said. He'd measure from object ball to the rail with cue, grab the shaft at that point, then still holding on to that point, move the cue outside the rail...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2T-UzXpD7I&NR=1

Rule Question: Using another ball to determine clearance

14.1 Addict

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

14.1 Addict

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Rattling corners nightly

recreational banger