Thoughts on CF shaft for jumping

There was a guy at the clinic with mark Wilson we went that had one. It jumped effortlessly

Jumping is the sole reason I do not own a CF shaft... no other reason. It's not that I believe that you should have to use your playing stick to jump (although I do believe that), it's that if you use a CF shaft for playing, you're FORCED to use a jump stick for jumping. This also wanders into the realm of why I don't like Diamond slate.

The only way I see a CF jump stick working is that you only want it so it's not affected by weather. However, if that is what you want, then you could use all kinds of materials at that point (cheap fiberglass filled with epoxy jumps right to mind).

If CF jump sticks ever become popular, it will not be because they jump better, it will be because somebody just wants to sell you something more expensive. While not identical in application but in reasoning, this happened with the masse sticks. I've used several of them and all of them are absolutely great if you want to play EXTREME trick style shots, but you'd never need one otherwise (well, maybe rarely in 3 cushion). Basically, somebody just wanted to sell something regardless of its usefulness.

Cron said:

Jumping is the sole reason I do not own a CF shaft... no other reason. It's not that I believe that you should have to use your playing stick to jump (although I do believe that), it's that if you use a CF shaft for playing, you're FORCED to use a jump stick for jumping. This also wanders into the realm of why I don't like Diamond slate.

The only way I see a CF jump stick working is that you only want it so it's not affected by weather. However, if that is what you want, then you could use all kinds of materials at that point (cheap fiberglass filled with epoxy jumps right to mind).

If CF jump sticks ever become popular, it will not be because they jump better, it will be because somebody just wants to sell you something more expensive. While not identical in application but in reasoning, this happened with the masse sticks. I've used several of them and all of them are absolutely great if you want to play EXTREME trick style shots, but you'd never need one otherwise (well, maybe rarely in 3 cushion). Basically, somebody just wanted to sell something regardless of its usefulness.

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Sorry but you’re wrong. Wrong on just about everything. They do jump better because of how they are able to control the weight/distribution much better. I just don’t own one myself because my preference for size hasn’t been met. Hopefully Predator’s will be a 12.9mm.

Hits 'em Hard said:

Sorry but you’re wrong. Wrong on just about everything. They do jump better because of how they are able to control the weight/distribution much better. I just don’t own one myself because my preference for size hasn’t been met. Hopefully Predator’s will be a 12.9mm.

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To clarify your point, would you care to explain what I was NOT wrong about?

EDIT: While not really related here, but I checked for _HIGH_ density carbon fiber and could not find 1 application for it. Does one exist?

I own a Black Magic jump cue that is made from carbon fiber and I am able to jump a ball from 1/4" away unlike other jump cues I have owned which I have needed about 3" to clear the blocking ball. I think the key is that it is less than 5oz.

Hugh Jass said:

Was thinking of making my rush into a break/Jump cue, has anyone done this? I know I would have to change tips, has anyone started using a CF for jumping and what tip did you use that works good for both breaking and jumping

Like the idea of having less equipment to carry around, I know Samsara has these break/jump but really like the Rush for breaking

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I have never played with a low deflection shaft that jumped well, at all. I tried to show a few people the trick of jumping over a small part of a ball when shooting to get shape on the other side of the ball and failed to clear 1/4 of a ball in several tries, grabbed a house cue and shot it 3 times in a row without issues. You pretty much need a dedicated jump cue if you play with a LD shaft.

hang-the-9 said:

I have never played with a low deflection shaft that jumped well, at all. I tried to show a few people the trick of jumping over a small part of a ball when shooting to get shape on the other side of the ball and failed to clear 1/4 of a ball in several tries, grabbed a house cue and shot it 3 times in a row without issues. You pretty much need a dedicated jump cue if you play with a LD shaft.

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They don't jump well at all, and if they did, then they wouldn't be "LD". Only one person I know trusted me enough with his REVO to try it about 20 times. I just gave up because even with the object ball at about 3 feet away, I felt like I had to break the stick to make the jump. I finally did make the jump and I didn't break the shaft, but I wouldn't do it again (although I didn't pocket the ball... I just made the jump).

Carbon fiber is probably on the top ten list of common materials to _NOT_ use for a jump stick, it just doesn't make sense to use a low density material unless you're just trying to sell it. Can it be done? Sure, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should... unless you just want to make money.

Jumping topic, but this thread made me curious for a couple hours about high density CF (which apparently isn't a thing, not even mil spec/license stuff), but on that journey I found Balsa wood. I'm not a cue maker, but Balsa wood looks amazing for its density, I imagine you can make some light weight butts out of that, which is exactly what I'm looking for right now as I do _NO_ want to 3D print a butt. I'm wondering just how low weight Balsa butts can go.

Cron said:

They don't jump well at all, and if they did, then they wouldn't be "LD". Only one person I know trusted me enough with his REVO to try it about 20 times. I just gave up because even with the object ball at about 3 feet away, I felt like I had to break the stick to make the jump. I finally did make the jump and I didn't break the shaft, but I wouldn't do it again (although I didn't pocket the ball... I just made the jump).

Carbon fiber is probably on the top ten list of common materials to _NOT_ use for a jump stick, it just doesn't make sense to use a low density material unless you're just trying to sell it. Can it be done? Sure, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should... unless you just want to make money.

Jumping topic, but this thread made me curious for a couple hours about high density CF (which apparently isn't a thing, not even mil spec/license stuff), but on that journey I found Balsa wood. I'm not a cue maker, but Balsa wood looks amazing for its density, I imagine you can make some light weight butts out of that, which is exactly what I'm looking for right now as I do _NO_ want to 3D print a butt. I'm wondering just how low weight Balsa butts can go.

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I think someone posted in a thread not long that Pat Fleming had a very light weight full size cue around for jumping when jump cues were not allowed. Getting someone to make a very light but normal size cue (say 57") would be an interesting loop hole to try.

Hugh Jass said:

Was thinking of making my rush into a break/Jump cue, has anyone done this? I know I would have to change tips, has anyone started using a CF for jumping and what tip did you use that works good for both breaking and jumping

Like the idea of having less equipment to carry around, I know Samsara has these break/jump but really like the Rush for breaking

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Look on YouTube and Facebook for videos of the cuetec propel jump cue. It's 13+ mm on the shaft. Mine is actually 13.71mm.

Cron said:

Jumping is the sole reason I do not own a CF shaft... no other reason. It's not that I believe that you should have to use your playing stick to jump (although I do believe that), it's that if you use a CF shaft for playing, you're FORCED to use a jump stick for jumping. This also wanders into the realm of why I don't like Diamond slate.

The only way I see a CF jump stick working is that you only want it so it's not affected by weather. However, if that is what you want, then you could use all kinds of materials at that point (cheap fiberglass filled with epoxy jumps right to mind).

If CF jump sticks ever become popular, it will not be because they jump better, it will be because somebody just wants to sell you something more expensive. While not identical in application but in reasoning, this happened with the masse sticks. I've used several of them and all of them are absolutely great if you want to play EXTREME trick style shots, but you'd never need one otherwise (well, maybe rarely in 3 cushion). Basically, somebody just wanted to sell something regardless of its usefulness.

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I see only one major reason for c.f. jumpers not being most popular - they're expensive atm.
I don't agree with what you're saying about c.f. being no good material for jumping. In fact I believe breaking and jumping - these are two aspects of the game of pool where c.f. has certain advantages offering some good possibilities that can be used.
In order not to make things too complicated and don't go into the theory when it comes to jumping it is very much about the stiffness of the shaft & the stick.
When it comes to the ratio weight/stiffness with c.f. you can get it quite lower comparing to wood which means you get a stiffer shaft being lighter than out of wood.
So it is just more possibilities for getting what you need for certain shots where certain equipment just works better for one but of course it may not be the fact for another.

Cron said:

To clarify your point, would you care to explain what I was NOT wrong about?

EDIT: While not really related here, but I checked for _HIGH_ density carbon fiber and could not find 1 application for it. Does one exist?

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I’ve seen some pretty far fetched ideas, but this idea of yours is sewage tier idea.

Cron said:

They don't jump well at all, and if they did, then they wouldn't be "LD". Only one person I know trusted me enough with his REVO to try it about 20 times. I just gave up because even with the object ball at about 3 feet away, I felt like I had to break the stick to make the jump. I finally did make the jump and I didn't break the shaft, but I wouldn't do it again (although I didn't pocket the ball... I just made the jump).

Carbon fiber is probably on the top ten list of common materials to _NOT_ use for a jump stick, it just doesn't make sense to use a low density material unless you're just trying to sell it. Can it be done? Sure, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should... unless you just want to make money.

Jumping topic, but this thread made me curious for a couple hours about high density CF (which apparently isn't a thing, not even mil spec/license stuff), but on that journey I found Balsa wood. I'm not a cue maker, but Balsa wood looks amazing for its density, I imagine you can make some light weight butts out of that, which is exactly what I'm looking for right now as I do _NO_ want to 3D print a butt. I'm wondering just how low weight Balsa butts can go.

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Why in the ****ing world would you want an ‘LD’ jump shaft? Your no longer in the correct thinking mind at all. Your all over the place in your accusations that carbon fiber doesn’t preform well. And what the hell are you even talking about ‘high density carbon fiber’? Where did you ever get that idea from?

Have you ever used more than one brand of jump cue? I’d like to say that I’ve tried almost every production jump cue out there, and several custom jump cues. Nothing what you’ve said matches anything I’ve experienced. My Steve Lomax jump cue has a balsa wood cored handle with a maple shaft. The BECue, and Cuetec carbon fiber jump cues are both just as good if not easier to jump with. I just don’t like the size of the Cuetec in my fingers, and the BECue has a weird extension/handle combo I just couldn’t get a feel for. Both of those carbon fiber jump cues had no problem clearing a chalk width gap.

I just don’t get how you’ve taken a stance that is counter to what everyone has physically observed. You’ve jumped with a Revo......that’s nice. That’s still not a jump shaft. Stop spouting unbelievable nonsense.

Cron said:

Jumping is the sole reason I do not own a CF shaft... no other reason. It's not that I believe that you should have to use your playing stick to jump (although I do believe that), it's that if you use a CF shaft for playing, you're FORCED to use a jump stick for jumping. This also wanders into the realm of why I don't like Diamond slate.

The only way I see a CF jump stick working is that you only want it so it's not affected by weather. However, if that is what you want, then you could use all kinds of materials at that point (cheap fiberglass filled with epoxy jumps right to mind).

If CF jump sticks ever become popular, it will not be because they jump better, it will be because somebody just wants to sell you something more expensive. While not identical in application but in reasoning, this happened with the masse sticks. I've used several of them and all of them are absolutely great if you want to play EXTREME trick style shots, but you'd never need one otherwise (well, maybe rarely in 3 cushion). Basically, somebody just wanted to sell something regardless of its usefulness.

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Is English! back?

Cron said:

This also wanders into the realm of why I don't like Diamond slate.

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Please do elaborate on this detail??

TFT

trentfromtoledo said:

Please do elaborate on this detail??

TFT

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Oh, this is a huge pet peeve here locally. We find the Diamond slate too “slatey”. Doesn’t have the same slateness that a Brunswick has. Their slate just tastes better.

Shawn Armstrong said:

Oh, this is a huge pet peeve here locally. We find the Diamond slate too “slatey”. Doesn’t have the same slateness that a Brunswick has. Their slate just tastes better.

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Shawn Armstrong said:

Oh, this is a huge pet peeve here locally. We find the Diamond slate too “slatey”. Doesn’t have the same slateness that a Brunswick has. Their slate just tastes better.

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AHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHA

Thats some funny stuff!

TFT

Cron said:

They don't jump well at all, and if they did, then they wouldn't be "LD". Only one person I know trusted me enough with his REVO to try it about 20 times. I just gave up because even with the object ball at about 3 feet away, I felt like I had to break the stick to make the jump. I finally did make the jump and I didn't break the shaft, but I wouldn't do it again (although I didn't pocket the ball... I just made the jump).

Carbon fiber is probably on the top ten list of common materials to _NOT_ use for a jump stick, it just doesn't make sense to use a low density material unless you're just trying to sell it. Can it be done? Sure, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should... unless you just want to make money.

Jumping topic, but this thread made me curious for a couple hours about high density CF (which apparently isn't a thing, not even mil spec/license stuff), but on that journey I found Balsa wood. I'm not a cue maker, but Balsa wood looks amazing for its density, I imagine you can make some light weight butts out of that, which is exactly what I'm looking for right now as I do _NO_ want to 3D print a butt. I'm wondering just how low weight Balsa butts can go.

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You completely lost me when you said carbon fibre is low density, especially then referring to wood, and then balsa. They make racing parts for motorcycles from carbon fibre. They’re even using it for swingarms on the new Ducati and Honda MotoGP bikes. Low density, huh?

I care what shaft you use i want to see that jump shot from a 1/4 inch.

Hits 'em Hard said:

and the BECue has a weird extension/handle combo

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Ha, I'm glad someone found the same thing I have with that jump cue. You really have to disassemble and assemble to go from the three piece configuration to the two piece configuration (if you are following the 40 inch rule).

Don't understand what Becue was thinking with that???