What exacly happens under the pressure?

JLW

JLW

Dunder Mifflin Salesman
Silver Member
BAZARUS said:
I have been asking myself this question since I started to play poker in april last year. I really don't feel any preassure playing poker. Is this because I'm really good or because I am just having fun playing it? Poker doesn't really requires much skill, but decision making is crucial. Pool requires lots of skill, but decison making is important as well.
I was thinking that it would be great to apply the same aproach to pool, but I can't figure it out how. What exacly causes folding under the preassure? Why muscles works differently and why decisions are wrong? Why at some point pool game becomes a mental game?
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From what I have read, mental pressure can cause actual physiological changes to take place in the body. Your breathing becomes more shallow, and your fine motor skills are affected. Playing great poker requires knowledge and a little luck. Playing great pool requires both of those things and the ability to repeatedly perform precise physical movements while under pressure.
 
BAZARUS

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land
Silver Member
JLW said:
From what I have read, mental pressure can cause actual physiological changes to take place in the body. Your breathing becomes more shallow, and your fine motor skills are affected. Playing great poker requires knowledge and a little luck. Playing great pool requires both of those things and the ability to repeatedly perform precise physical movements while under pressure.
Click to expand...

You are right about that. There are lots of things that are happenning. For example when I play poker my palms sweats. Weird isn't?
 
C

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bazarus, think back to when you first started playing poker. Remember how it felt when there was this massive pot, and you were sitting there with the absoloute nuts, watching all of these people bet and raise before you, and there is no hand that can beat you? Your heart starts pounding, you get excited, palms sweaty, etc. Now lets take that situation and make an imaginary one out of it. You've got A-K of Spades and the flop came 10-J-Q of spades. Everyone is betting and raising before you. Now it's your turn, and before you can do anything, you manage to drop your cards so everyone sees them. Everyone folds. You got a tiny pot because you dropped your cards, you dogged it. That is really hard to do in poker. In pool, the slightest flutter in your line of vision can totally destroy your concentration and cause you to miss. Pool is such a mental game, and not only is that incredibly complex in itself, but it also lies on the physical aspects. If you can't execute what you are trying to do, no matter how good your decision was, you are still screwed. In poker, if you make a good decision, you execute it 100% of the time. There IS skill in poker, but it has ABSOLOUTELY NO COMPARISON to the level of skill required for pool. I personally think poker is bullshit and doesn't belong on ESPN. Yeah there are good poker players and they are smart and can read people, etc, but they still can get beat anytime by some moron who keeps getting good cards. By the way, poker players ***** and complain even more than pool players do.
 
BAZARUS

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land
Silver Member
Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse. The truth is that I'm loosing intrest in pool. I've been playing for 14 years without a major title and my fire for the game simply burnes down. Is there any help for me to get back and should I seek one anyway, don't know. :confused:
 
Slasher

Slasher

KE = 0.5 • m • v2
Silver Member
Fight or Flight
To produce the fight-or-flight response, the hypothalamus activates two systems: the sympathetic nervous system and the adrenal-cortical system. The sympathetic nervous system uses nerve pathways to initiate reactions in the body, and the adrenal-corticol system uses the bloodstream. The combined effects of these two systems are the fight-or-flight response.

When the hypothalamus tells the sympathetic nervous system to kick into gear, the overall effect is that the body speeds up, tenses up and becomes generally very alert. If there's a burglar at the door, you're going to have to take action -- and fast. The sympathetic nervous system sends out impulses to glands and smooth muscles and tells the adrenal medulla to release epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) into bloodstream. These "stress hormones" cause several changes in the body, including an increase in heart rate and blood pressure.

At the same time, the hypothalamus releases corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) into the pituitary gland, activating the adrenal-cortical system. The pituitary gland (a major endocrine gland) secretes the hormone ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone). ACTH moves through the bloodstream and ultimately arrives at the adrenal cortex, where it activates the release of approximately 30 different hormones that get the body prepared to deal with a threat.


The sudden flood of epinephrine, norepinephrine and dozens of other hormones causes changes in the body that include:

* heart rate and blood pressure increase
* pupils dilate to take in as much light as possible
* veins in skin constrict to send more blood to major muscle groups (responsible for the "chill" sometimes associated with fear -- less blood in the skin to keep it warm)
* blood-glucose level increases
* muscles tense up, energized by adrenaline and glucose (responsible for goose bumps -- when tiny muscles attached to each hair on surface of skin tense up, the hairs are forced upright, pulling skin with them)
* smooth muscle relaxes in order to allow more oxygen into the lungs
* nonessential systems (like digestion and immune system) shut down to allow more energy for emergency functions
* trouble focusing on small tasks (brain is directed to focus only on big picture in order to determine where threat is coming from)

All of these physical responses are intended to help you survive a dangerous situation by preparing you to either run for your life or fight for your life (thus the term "fight or flight"). Fear -- and the fight-or-flight response in particular -- is an instinct that every animal possesses.
 
BAZARUS

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land
Silver Member
Slasher said:
Fight or Flight
To produce the fight-or-flight response, the hypothalamus activates two systems: the sympathetic nervous system and the adrenal-cortical system. The sympathetic nervous system uses nerve pathways to initiate reactions in the body, and the adrenal-corticol system uses the bloodstream. The combined effects of these two systems are the fight-or-flight response.

When the hypothalamus tells the sympathetic nervous system to kick into gear, the overall effect is that the body speeds up, tenses up and becomes generally very alert. If there's a burglar at the door, you're going to have to take action -- and fast. The sympathetic nervous system sends out impulses to glands and smooth muscles and tells the adrenal medulla to release epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine (noradrenaline) into bloodstream. These "stress hormones" cause several changes in the body, including an increase in heart rate and blood pressure.

At the same time, the hypothalamus releases corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) into the pituitary gland, activating the adrenal-cortical system. The pituitary gland (a major endocrine gland) secretes the hormone ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone). ACTH moves through the bloodstream and ultimately arrives at the adrenal cortex, where it activates the release of approximately 30 different hormones that get the body prepared to deal with a threat.


The sudden flood of epinephrine, norepinephrine and dozens of other hormones causes changes in the body that include:

* heart rate and blood pressure increase
* pupils dilate to take in as much light as possible
* veins in skin constrict to send more blood to major muscle groups (responsible for the "chill" sometimes associated with fear -- less blood in the skin to keep it warm)
* blood-glucose level increases
* muscles tense up, energized by adrenaline and glucose (responsible for goose bumps -- when tiny muscles attached to each hair on surface of skin tense up, the hairs are forced upright, pulling skin with them)
* smooth muscle relaxes in order to allow more oxygen into the lungs
* nonessential systems (like digestion and immune system) shut down to allow more energy for emergency functions
* trouble focusing on small tasks (brain is directed to focus only on big picture in order to determine where threat is coming from)

All of these physical responses are intended to help you survive a dangerous situation by preparing you to either run for your life or fight for your life (thus the term "fight or flight"). Fear -- and the fight-or-flight response in particular -- is an instinct that every animal possesses.
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to get back to this one later :D
I just lost at the final table to runner runner jacks and am pissed off! :mad:
 
HitHrdNDraw

HitHrdNDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fight or flight

I am glad someone else explained it so i don't have too, here's a tip though that pro golfers have been using for years to steady their hand when putting... there is a class of blood pressure medicines called beta-blockers (some names are atenolol (or tenormin) and metoprolol (or lopressor)) that counteracts much of the effects of the sympathetic response such as the increased heartrate and blood pressure which makes it much easier to control you breathing and decreases the stress on your body of a pressure situation. i am not advocating taking these medicines before a big match because they can be very dangerous if used incorrectly, but this is more for useless trivia knowledge
 
Slasher

Slasher

KE = 0.5 • m • v2
Silver Member
I had thought about using some of these type of drugs to control my nerves, I suffer badly sometimes, It comes in waves and for no apparent reason, sometimes in situations you would consider no pressure.
On the other hand I have produced some of my best in the crunch, but thats rare.
I declined just because I think my health is more important than winning, just :D
 
BAZARUS

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land
Silver Member
There are some sort of illegal drugs that a few people uses that I know before an important match. From what I know those pills cost $5.00 each and last about 2 hours. One of those guys described as he don't really care whats happenning and therefore he is loose and freewilling.
 
Snapshot9

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
Your best game ...

Comes from within, sometimes when your up and sometimes
when the pressure is really on. Confidence is not something
you can tell someone to have, it is something that is built,
gradually over time. People with 'false' confidence falter,
or end up dogging shots, that they normally might not.
The best ingredient you can have is to be 'self assured'.
How is that different? Well, confidence is thinking you can,
and self assuredness is knowing you can. Self assuredness
is knowing what you can do and also knowing what you can't
do, which results in you knowing what game you have. Knowing
your limitations is good because it allows you to make better
choices when playing. The all out go for everything shooter
soons runs into someone that is smarter in the way they play,
and he soons learns lessons, sometimes costly ones. How do
you become 'self assured'? By knowing your capabilities as a
player, and everything else in life. How do you increase this
within you, by seeking knowledge, having discipline, and
real life experiences. Become self assured by knowing what
you are capable of, seek to increase your capabilities, have
discipline and imagination, and your confidence will grow in
your game. Then one day you will make it over that peak
of a hill, making that one shot that you were scared of, you
will know you have moved forward, not only in skill, but within
yourself too, which provides the basis for having a tough mental
game. Now, how many pushups can you do? Isn't it about time
you found out ... lol
 
iacas

iacas

Drill Sergeant
Silver Member
HitHrdNDraw said:
I am glad someone else explained it so i don't have too, here's a tip though that pro golfers have been using for years to steady their hand when putting...there is a class of blood pressure medicines called beta-blockers (some names are atenolol (or tenormin) and metoprolol (or lopressor)) that counteracts much of the effects of the sympathetic response such as the increased heartrate and blood pressure which makes it much easier to control you breathing and decreases the stress on your body of a pressure situation. i am not advocating taking these medicines before a big match because they can be very dangerous if used incorrectly, but this is more for useless trivia knowledge
Click to expand...

That's bullpucky. Nick Price was on beta blockers for awhile - for a HEART condition for which they were prescribed - and he went off of them because the negatively affected his golf game.

Every quote re: beta blockers I've ever seen from someone who has used them, almost always for medical reasons, has said that the golfer got off of them as soon as possible or immediately because their game was negatively affected.

John Daly, I believe, made news 10 years ago by saying the tour had a drug problem with beta blockers. He was later shown to be quite false. This was when Nick Price was doing well on tour and came out with his own tale of the beta blockers (and how he'd quit them).

So, pardon me for butting in here, but I couldn't let the accusation fly without providing some better facts. I can't say for sure that all golfers are clean (aside from smoke and tobacco, of course, or aspirin, etc.), but I can say that the beta blocker issue has been talked about and the truth is pretty well known: it's bad for your golf and no pros use it unless they're forced to to cope with a heart issue. And even then, they usually find an alternative medicine.

Beta blcokers may or may not help with your pool game. I strongly suggest you find a non-medicinal way to fix yourself, however.
 
HitHrdNDraw

HitHrdNDraw

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iacas

iacas

Drill Sergeant
Silver Member
HitHrdNDraw said:
please allow me to set the record straight ... here is an article from a reputable source.... nick price is one golfer.... there have been many others as well as mentions to other sports that require a steady hand such as archery and rifle shooting... .. read and enjoy ... and for the record in my professional medical opinion (and that is not a joke) the best way to combat nerves is by seasoning... no pills that are not prescribed for you
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That is one example of the stories, you're right. I know it was an issue in the mid-90s as well. An "issue" as far as being discussed, not a "problem" or anything like that, and I still seem to recall John Daly as being the one who stirred the pot back then, but I could be wrong. I just know that Craig Parry in 2000 was five years or so after the fact...

But yeah, to re-iterate what I said: fix the problem without medication.
 
Slasher

Slasher

KE = 0.5 • m • v2
Silver Member
Fixing the problem is not a simple task.
This is a psycological condition, probably instilled at a very early age and ingrained over years of constant suggestion, you know, the "fear of failure" "your stupid" "you will never amount to anything " yada yada yada.
It causes an already instinctive reaction to be enhanced to the point of severe affliction.
i would give a million dollars not to have this demon, it has negatively affected every aspect of my life.
 
BAZARUS

BAZARUS

alien in a strange land
Silver Member
Slasher said:
Fixing the problem is not a simple task.
This is a psycological condition, probably instilled at a very early age and ingrained over years of constant suggestion, you know, the "fear of failure" "your stupid" "you will never amount to anything " yada yada yada.
It causes an already instinctive reaction to be enhanced to the point of severe affliction.
i would give a million dollars not to have this demon, it has negatively affected every aspect of my life.
Click to expand...

Yes you are right. I just happen to have exacly that. Bad chilhood and I am a nervous wreck.
 
chefjeff

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
Slasher said:
Fixing the problem is not a simple task.
This is a psycological condition, probably instilled at a very early age and ingrained over years of constant suggestion, you know, the "fear of failure" "your stupid" "you will never amount to anything " yada yada yada.
It causes an already instinctive reaction to be enhanced to the point of severe affliction.
i would give a million dollars not to have this demon, it has negatively affected every aspect of my life.
Click to expand...

You don't need a million dollars. If I lead you to someone who can help you, do I get the million? :rolleyes:

You call it a learned behavior, then you call in instinctive. It can't be both. The truth is, it IS a learned behavior. That is good because learned behavior can be UNlearned, right?

It is simple; it is not easy.

Jeff Livingston
 
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