The pricing is disappointing.
Cutec Cynergy 15K
- Thread starter LocalArtist
- Start date
Why do you think that?
The price is not low enough to be too enticing. Although, at these high prices and given the budget of most pool players - every bit matters and the Cuetec will be more accessible money wise. This is added benefit, but not the main draw.
Not sure if this is a matter of Cuetec undercutting Predator by a little bit to maximize profits, or if that's just the nature of manufacturing CF shafts. Maybe they are pricey to make.
What Cuetec is doing which will be huge and I expect they will surpass the REVO and have more market dominance in CF is the offering of all the joint types and pin sizes.
Most cues are not uni-loc or radial.
$50 less and available for your existing butt? That's a big win.
Predator is excluding themselves from the majority of the market (a least in the REVO) by offering only uniloc and radial. Perhaps they felt that someone willing to spend $500 on a shaft, is not your average pool player and is also the type to buy a butt to go with it in the quest for ultimate performance. In this manner, Predator has sold a ton of their P3 type cues that otherwise weren't that hot. I don't remember these P series cues being constantly sold out and sold on the second hand market for full price or higher. It's obvious that they are being bought just for the shaft, as there's many for sale ads selling off just the butts. Lot of those on the market.
Anyway -
While this is personal preference, I do like the super long taper of the Cuetec.
On deflection though....assuming designs have not changed from the samples sent out, it will not be as low deflection as the REVO. But....do most people care? I doubt they do. OB is not as low deflection, and they've been popular. Cuetec though is not small-time. They have resources to bring more to market.
Most players are happy being in the "LD realm" ..without necessarily demanding the absolute lowest possible deflection.
I think a lot of players who play with the Z shaft put up with the conical taper and tiny tip in order to have that super low deflection. I don't believe most players prefer that taper, feel or look (sighting). These are people who are about performance first, all else secondary.
If players liked that taper and tip size, we would have seen it decades ago. Only a rare custom here and there would have an 11mm conical taper for pool. Fairly niche. Hardly ever seen.
For me personally, the biggest attraction is the ding-free, warp-free nature of these shaft. I hate dings, I hate dents...even super tiny ones most people can't feel. Not having to be as careful and cautious with the cue is kinda nice. Being able to finally keep your cue in your car without worrying about warping the shaft is nice too.
Cuetec's ferrule design puts too much mass at the very end where it matters most, which nullifies much of the advantages of having a hallow front end. From my understanding of the data, and also the patents filed by Predator many years ago -
If say you chopped off the end of 2 shafts at 5 inches and weighed them, and they weigh the same. If shaft A has a higher percentage of its weight toward the tip, and shaft B has a higher percentage of its weight further down the 5 inch section of shaft - shaft B will have less deflection.
REVO's ferrule...if we can even call it that, it's more of an end cap for the CF tube ...is about as thin and light as they can make it without compromising the integrity of the shaft (having it shatter, crack or break).
Cuetec has this end cap, but it extends quite a bit more - forming more of a true ferrule. Putting more mass on the very end where it hurts the most in terms of deflection.
Not sure if this is a matter of Cuetec undercutting Predator by a little bit to maximize profits, or if that's just the nature of manufacturing CF shafts. Maybe they are pricey to make.
What Cuetec is doing which will be huge and I expect they will surpass the REVO and have more market dominance in CF is the offering of all the joint types and pin sizes.
Most cues are not uni-loc or radial.
$50 less and available for your existing butt? That's a big win.
Predator is excluding themselves from the majority of the market (a least in the REVO) by offering only uniloc and radial. Perhaps they felt that someone willing to spend $500 on a shaft, is not your average pool player and is also the type to buy a butt to go with it in the quest for ultimate performance. In this manner, Predator has sold a ton of their P3 type cues that otherwise weren't that hot. I don't remember these P series cues being constantly sold out and sold on the second hand market for full price or higher. It's obvious that they are being bought just for the shaft, as there's many for sale ads selling off just the butts. Lot of those on the market.
Anyway -
While this is personal preference, I do like the super long taper of the Cuetec.
On deflection though....assuming designs have not changed from the samples sent out, it will not be as low deflection as the REVO. But....do most people care? I doubt they do. OB is not as low deflection, and they've been popular. Cuetec though is not small-time. They have resources to bring more to market.
Most players are happy being in the "LD realm" ..without necessarily demanding the absolute lowest possible deflection.
I think a lot of players who play with the Z shaft put up with the conical taper and tiny tip in order to have that super low deflection. I don't believe most players prefer that taper, feel or look (sighting). These are people who are about performance first, all else secondary.
If players liked that taper and tip size, we would have seen it decades ago. Only a rare custom here and there would have an 11mm conical taper for pool. Fairly niche. Hardly ever seen.
For me personally, the biggest attraction is the ding-free, warp-free nature of these shaft. I hate dings, I hate dents...even super tiny ones most people can't feel. Not having to be as careful and cautious with the cue is kinda nice. Being able to finally keep your cue in your car without worrying about warping the shaft is nice too.
Cuetec's ferrule design puts too much mass at the very end where it matters most, which nullifies much of the advantages of having a hallow front end. From my understanding of the data, and also the patents filed by Predator many years ago -
If say you chopped off the end of 2 shafts at 5 inches and weighed them, and they weigh the same. If shaft A has a higher percentage of its weight toward the tip, and shaft B has a higher percentage of its weight further down the 5 inch section of shaft - shaft B will have less deflection.
REVO's ferrule...if we can even call it that, it's more of an end cap for the CF tube ...is about as thin and light as they can make it without compromising the integrity of the shaft (having it shatter, crack or break).
Cuetec has this end cap, but it extends quite a bit more - forming more of a true ferrule. Putting more mass on the very end where it hurts the most in terms of deflection.
Because it retails for 225% the price of the complete Edge 360 I bought to put it on.
I'll take the Revo for the extra $50 over the imitation.
I thought something in the $300 range would have been appropriate considering what they've been putting out for a product line.
Who's to say the Cuetec is inferior? Just because Predator was first to market and they make higher end cues does not mean the REVO is a superior shaft. Consider this: The owner of Cuetec has been manufacturing carbon fiber bats for a while now and has a deep knowledge in manufacturing using carbon fiber. Given his engineering knowledge and the fact many that have played with the Cuetec have given favorable reviews (including REVO users), maybe, just maybe, Cuetec has a superior product. If so, $50 less is a bargain. Time will tell.
Maybe... I never called it inferior, but if they're going high-end they should scrap the $70 decal butts that comprise such a thick slice of their line,
Referring to it as an "imitation" infers it is inferior. I'm sure they sell a ton of those decal cues and will most likely sell a ton of their carbon fiber shafts. Pretty smart, actually; catering to both ends of the spectrum.
Yeah, smart: Are you buying the $160,000 Kia or the $199,000 Lamborghini?
You're argument would make sense if Kia actually produced a $160K car. But, let's play. I would rather buy a Nissan GTR Track Edition for $128K than a $199K Lambo. No question.
I just feel a little betrayed buying the Edge 360 with the prospect of what I thought would be a realistically priced cf shaft on the horizon, only to face considerable sticker shock.
Having said that, I think the 360 is a great playing cue, and I don't regret supporting a company that supports America's best player in a substantial way.
I hear you, but did you honestly think it was going to be substantially cheaper that the REVO? We are still talking about carbon fiber. It's not cheap and certainly not cheap to make a shaft out of.
When it comes to the price policy for the cf. shafts atm... Well I don't want to speculate on how much in my opinion it would be reasonable to sell but I believe so many customers dreaming and wanting them so much being ready to spend that amount of money is a BIG factor. I'm fairly sure once the market is fed up with these new tech stuff and cf. shafts are just a common thing in pool world just like wooden LD shafts now then we'll see the real prices for them. Next year we'll see Jacoby and Mezz coming in play and I guess they won't be the last ones.
I'm curious what do these big production companies plan about their "old" LD shafts in near future.
After all these years in this sport I love as a coach I can tell these new cf. shafts are great tool to start learning the game and the kids are very curious to try it. At the time I've tested Revo in our school there were two kids I'm teaching and I saw their eyes they were very interested in trying it. I let them make some draw shots and they were amazed because they fell it is easier to perform a good draw with the same technique but the price is the BIGGEST salted but... There was a father of one of the kids who asked about the price... The youngster who bought this Revo and asked our pro Patsura Vitaliy to bring it along from eurotour in Treviso...he bought it from some player on a secondary market for 660$. Vitaliy and one of the billiard brothers from Russia were shocked with the price this kid had the deal. The funny part is this youngster now has that $$$ shaft and wants a good looking butt to match it but do you want to know for how much he wants this butt to be made for him? Nevermind...my point was the father's question about the price because his kid will celebrate his birthday soon and he saw his eyes BUT...with such a price...this is just crazy.
I can give you my example and the examples of the best players in my country who grew up on my eyes from being the kids till now being very talented players.
Well I started to learn the game at the end of 1998 being a 21 y.o. student with 20$ house cue. In a year my teacher Jorgen Sandman helped me to get my first cue from one of his friends Dan Prather for 200$. I've played my best pool with that cue and started to collect the medals winning my first national in 9-ball in 2001 playing with our young talent Artem Koshoviy in the final. Artem was also coached by Jorgen and practiced in our pool school in Kiev. I had already started to assist Jorgen in teaching the kids and we became friends with Artem. Artem started to learn the game with a 400$ Prather cue and after he won his bronze medal at WC 9-ball for youth in Sidney Jorgen made him a present from Dan Prather...a new beautiful hi-end cue he still owns and plays his best with. He is such a talent who in my opinion is still the best player in my country in spite of the fact he does not play much last 3 years being capable to get his best finish in WC 9-ball in Doha in 2016 losing in 1/8 to J.Shaw in hill-hill thriller (was up 9:3).
Another big and young talent who practices in our pool school is Vitaliy Patsura who is already three times european champion in U-19, men and U-23 divisions in this order. He was MVP of Atlantic cup in 2016. Well Vitaliy started to learn the game with a fairly cheap "made in China" cue, something like 40$. With that cheap cue he still was capable to improve fairly quickly and had his first important and good finishes in national tournaments. Before his first EC for youth where he won his first bronze losing to J.Filler in a semi he got a simple McDermott cue. If I remember correctly it was his third appearence at EC for youth in 2016 he played with his simple black Icon for something like 500+$ and he won his first gold then.
I hope you get my point. It was something of greater importance that helped us to succeed and that was a PASSION and a little bit of talent in addition. We used to do something the others did not which was one of the keys.
And now with all this experience do you think I advise my pupils (kids) to get this revolutionary stuff? I better help them to do the work that needs to be done to become great
. On the other hand I also have some students having a good job who can afford it and if some of them make a decision to get one...well they are grown ups earning for their living ...they just know from me it is far from being the most important thing to succeed.
I'm curious what do these big production companies plan about their "old" LD shafts in near future.
After all these years in this sport I love as a coach I can tell these new cf. shafts are great tool to start learning the game and the kids are very curious to try it. At the time I've tested Revo in our school there were two kids I'm teaching and I saw their eyes they were very interested in trying it. I let them make some draw shots and they were amazed because they fell it is easier to perform a good draw with the same technique but the price is the BIGGEST salted but... There was a father of one of the kids who asked about the price... The youngster who bought this Revo and asked our pro Patsura Vitaliy to bring it along from eurotour in Treviso...he bought it from some player on a secondary market for 660$. Vitaliy and one of the billiard brothers from Russia were shocked with the price this kid had the deal. The funny part is this youngster now has that $$$ shaft and wants a good looking butt to match it but do you want to know for how much he wants this butt to be made for him? Nevermind...my point was the father's question about the price because his kid will celebrate his birthday soon and he saw his eyes BUT...with such a price...this is just crazy.
I can give you my example and the examples of the best players in my country who grew up on my eyes from being the kids till now being very talented players.
Well I started to learn the game at the end of 1998 being a 21 y.o. student with 20$ house cue. In a year my teacher Jorgen Sandman helped me to get my first cue from one of his friends Dan Prather for 200$. I've played my best pool with that cue and started to collect the medals winning my first national in 9-ball in 2001 playing with our young talent Artem Koshoviy in the final. Artem was also coached by Jorgen and practiced in our pool school in Kiev. I had already started to assist Jorgen in teaching the kids and we became friends with Artem. Artem started to learn the game with a 400$ Prather cue and after he won his bronze medal at WC 9-ball for youth in Sidney Jorgen made him a present from Dan Prather...a new beautiful hi-end cue he still owns and plays his best with. He is such a talent who in my opinion is still the best player in my country in spite of the fact he does not play much last 3 years being capable to get his best finish in WC 9-ball in Doha in 2016 losing in 1/8 to J.Shaw in hill-hill thriller (was up 9:3).
Another big and young talent who practices in our pool school is Vitaliy Patsura who is already three times european champion in U-19, men and U-23 divisions in this order. He was MVP of Atlantic cup in 2016. Well Vitaliy started to learn the game with a fairly cheap "made in China" cue, something like 40$. With that cheap cue he still was capable to improve fairly quickly and had his first important and good finishes in national tournaments. Before his first EC for youth where he won his first bronze losing to J.Filler in a semi he got a simple McDermott cue. If I remember correctly it was his third appearence at EC for youth in 2016 he played with his simple black Icon for something like 500+$ and he won his first gold then.
I hope you get my point. It was something of greater importance that helped us to succeed and that was a PASSION and a little bit of talent in addition. We used to do something the others did not which was one of the keys.
And now with all this experience do you think I advise my pupils (kids) to get this revolutionary stuff? I better help them to do the work that needs to be done to become great
. On the other hand I also have some students having a good job who can afford it and if some of them make a decision to get one...well they are grown ups earning for their living ...they just know from me it is far from being the most important thing to succeed.
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