I remember reading on here once, someone saying that Efren can use low spin like top spin. Tonight practicing I noticed that when shooting low on the cue ball, I was quite a bit more accurate than using top spin. Is it just me or is there really a difference with accuracy between the two. I know low spin will eventually turn into follow, but is there any videos out there showing hitting low for follow.
low vs high
- Thread starter irock
- Start date
I think you see a lot more pros aiming low on the cue ball because it is easier to
identify the exact center of the cueball where it touches the table. Maybe I am wrong...
td
In general top is easier to control since it always remains top and the speed is easier to judge. Using bottom is cool but in general simple is best in pool so perfect pool would be stop shots or center ball every time using the angle of the cue ball relative to the object ball in order to get around the table.
Being more accurate aiming wise with low does not necessarily translate into better cue ball control. That being said you likely find it easier to hit centerball when cueing closer to the table (with los English) since you have a better point of reference with the point where the ball touches the cloth.
SpringsF6B
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It may be just taste
For me a soft follow shot regardless of side english is the most accurate. I find that if I need to put pace on a ball low english is way more accurate. If I shoot a long relatively straight shot I will also use low. The hardest follow shot I ever shoot is mid table pocketing the object in one of the end pockets with the cue going off of the end rail back to mid table. Usually if I am near the end rail and make a shot into one of the end pockets and need to get to the other end of the tabke I will use top but with significant side english. The side english spin is what gets me where I want to go not the follow english.
For me a soft follow shot regardless of side english is the most accurate. I find that if I need to put pace on a ball low english is way more accurate. If I shoot a long relatively straight shot I will also use low. The hardest follow shot I ever shoot is mid table pocketing the object in one of the end pockets with the cue going off of the end rail back to mid table. Usually if I am near the end rail and make a shot into one of the end pockets and need to get to the other end of the tabke I will use top but with significant side english. The side english spin is what gets me where I want to go not the follow english.
There's a lot that can be discussed in regards to low vs high (your title). But your post talks specifically to 'shooting low for follow', and in particular posting a video as an example.
The technique of shooting low with the intent to allow it to turn into follow is typically called a 'drag shot'. The best video example that comes to mind is the hill-hill between Reyes and Rempe in this clip at about 1:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm7qVSYf3ms
When you look at the overhead the angle doesn't look quite as severe, but looking from the shooter's point of view it looks very, very difficult to pocket the one ball and hold shape for the two. If you slow rolled this ball with top spin it would be a length of the table bunt shot, making the shot more difficult for several reasons. One, it is hard to use a super slow bunt stroke with the same accuracy as a more normal speed of cuing. Another is some people do find it more difficult to aim hitting center to above center. But more importantly it would leave you vulnerable to any trace of table roll or drift.
As played he is able to cue with medium speed using draw. The draw wearing off and turning into natural roll kills a lot of speed, so by the time he strikes the one ball it has the same result as a long bunt shot, yet with much more accuracy.
Generally this drag draw shot is best used when you need to lag a ball in but have a lot of distance to contend with. If you are within a couple of feet you can just go ahead and roll the ball. If you are shooting with the intent to follow the ball more than a little then it is ok to just use a normal stroke with an above center hit. But the kill shot is a good one to have in your bag of tricks for times like these.
Does that answer your question?
PS- I just rewatched the entire video, can't help myself. The 5 ball shot is actually an example of using draw to kill cue ball speed AFTER contacting the object ball. Killing cue ball speed with draw both before and after contact are discussed in Robert Byrne's Standard Book of Pool and Billiards. I consider this the bible of our sport and it is the textbook I used to learn to play when I was a teenager. I would recommend getting a copy. Pretty cool to see both shots come up in one rack, in a key spot, and executed to perfection!
PPS- That 7 ball wasn't in the book!!!
(OK, I supposed you could say it fell under the part about 'burn this diagram into your mind' in which he explains how the cue ball slides along the right angle line for a moment before the top/draw takes allowing you to make some cool shots. Efren hit the 7 super hard to delay the forward motion and avoid a scratch. Amazing shot. But you know what I mean when I say that wasn't in the book!)
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In addition to the fact that putting your tip low near the cloth helps you better see center ball and see more of the cue ball to judge the shot, you may be raising up or swooping prematurely. It's natural, almost everyone has to fight themselves to stay down perfectly on the shot to hit as level as possible cleanly through the ball when loading up on power. Note that when you hit a hard shot with low tip placement, the cue ball momentarily lifts away from the cloth and is also likely closer to skidding than rolling so sidespin doesn't change the line so much, the CB tends to fly straighter despite whatever small amount of unintentional spin got imparted to it and will arrive on target before swerve can take effect.
With high tip placement, the opposite is true and the cue ball gets pushed down into the cloth slightly so if your stroke is off by a half a millimeter, swerve is amplified from the start.
The thing about hitting hard with follow is that you need less power than you may think since you're not fighting cloth friction, if you just concentrate on hitting it firmly and clean, the energy of the top spin will carry the ball pretty far back up the table, whereas if you're jerking to try to power it you'll accidentally put sidespin and/or not get the optimum amount of energy into the cueball and you'll encounter problems both making shots and getting where you want to be.
I practice a drill where I place an object ball dead in line between the bottom left and top right pockets, about two diamonds up the long rail (3ft) from the pocket,then place a measle cue ball also dead in line as far away as possible hanging in the opposite corner pocket. I start by hitting a natural rolling shot as soft as possible so the object ball just trickles in and the cue ball does not deviate when it hits the object ball. Then I hit the shot again trying to follow the object ball enough to leave the CB hanging in the same pocket without following the ball in. Then I hit a force follow that would be hard enough to get back down table and make sure I cleanly follow the object ball in, not hitting either side of the pocket with either ball. Then I just keep increasing my force follow, trying to make the cue ball catch up to the object ball before it goes in the pocket.
It's very hard to do but helps me check that I am keeping a controlled straight stroke with hard follow, it quickly reveals if something in my fundamentals has come undone.
Get that down, and if you hit with the same stroke with draw and you should have no problem hitting a 9-foot shot hanging in the pocket and cleanly drawing back where you started. Then it won't matter if you hit with draw or follow, you should always be perfectly accurate.
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edit: duplicate post