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Reno Spectator Attendance
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Thumbs down Reno Spectator Attendance - 12-17-2007, 03:40 PM

Say, I was just watching the SVB vs. Montal & Archer vs. Tadd video on OTBNTV.com and I was saddened to see that there were only like 4 people in the audience!!!

WTF! Best players in the world-no draw whatsoever.
  
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12-17-2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownCityCorey
Say, I was just watching the SVB vs. Montal & Archer vs. Tadd video on OTBNTV.com and I was saddened to see that there were only like 4 people in the audience!!!

WTF! Best players in the world-no draw whatsoever.
I mentioned in an earlier thread that this was no longer a major tournament, and that it has become a regional event, and people acted like I was crazy for saying that. This tournament is nothing like it once was, most of the west coast pro's and a lot of bangers as well, nobody is really going to get excited to drive out to Reno and watch to tell you the truth. There are some great players, but I just not that fun to watch great players playing in a watered down event imo.
  
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Decline Of Reno
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Decline Of Reno - 12-17-2007, 04:27 PM

I cant figure out why but over the years the Reno Open has been in decline. Thats not to say there arent good players that come, just not as many as in past years. Some years weve seen Corey Duel, Marlon Manalo,Jeremy Jones and a long list of ohters. However they dont seem to come year after year.l wish i knew why. Definitely not the same as it was 10-15 years ago where every american player that could play was there. The field was filled with champions.

Last edited by storke; 12-17-2007 at 04:30 PM.
  
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12-17-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by storke
Definitely not the same as it was 10-15 years ago where every american player that could play was there. The field was filled with champions.
In the past Reno was one of the stops in Mens ProBilliards Tour circuit limitted to pro players only and that was the reason you were able to see who is who in pool.However they also allowed some fixed number of players (Non tour members) who qualified thru qualifiers.When the PBT which later became camel pro tour became defunct the Reno event became an open event and lost the participation of all the big names.





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Last edited by vagabond; 12-17-2007 at 05:05 PM.
  
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12-17-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond
In the past Reno was one of the stops in Mens ProBilliards Tour circuit and that was the reason you were able to see who is who in pool.They also allowed certain number of players( Non pros) who qualified thru qualifiers, the Reno event became an open event and lost the participation of all the big names.
I'm not sure that the "open" nature of the event causes the top names not to show. They seem to mostly all appear at the U.S. Open and the DCC for example.

There is just a general decline (that has existed for some time) in attendance and most pro tournaments EXCEPT the major opens like the two above...at the DCC you can hardly get in the room for the finals.

But at the BCA for example, there were TONS of emply seats for both the women's and men's semis and finals...and with 8,000 active league players within 100 yards of the event!

So, since WE dyed-in-the-wool PLAYERS don't care to watch the pro events, I guess we can't expect the general public to attend in person or to watch on TV...and they certainly DON'T in very large numbers.

How was attendance at the Mosconi...and whatever the number...subtract at least 5 people for each of the 12 players account for their personal friends/family so 60 people have to be deducted to assess the true "draw power" of that event.

But you are right...the Reno numbers were sad and just demonstrate that in the U.S. at least, the pro tour is a wounded puppy where none but a handful of pros can make more than minimum wage after expenses.

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Jim
  
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12-17-2007, 05:12 PM

Reno IS a great event.
I think that any potential sponsors considering billiards in the US have done their research and realize that the market cap is about 4.
This is the reason they would rather advertise elsewhere.
If the Reno event were televised live in the US any potential sponsor would be foolish to believe that there would be more than 4 non-pool players tuned in coast to coast.
Look, I love pool as much as anyone here, but the fact is that the 50 posters responsible for about 80 percent of the posts on AZ or RSB probably represent most of the games public marketability.
Sadly, after those 50 potential customers, there isn't much of a market for this game anymore.
That is the way advertisers feel and they are not far wrong.
Outside of this room, Pool is dead or dying.
Find me a US pool room that can survive on pool alone? I know there are a few scattered around but they are quite rare today.
I wish it were not the case but my/our great enjoyment/passion for playing pool isn't shared by many in the year 2007.

Horse racing has gone the same way in Michigan. Hazel Park used to routinely seat 10 to 14 thousand fans in the seats in the 70's almost every day. Now the same track seats about 250 people if they are lucky. Another fact-most of those 250 spectators that come out were alive in the 70's. There are very few young people in the stands at all.

Same thing at the pool rooms in Detroit. Most of the regulars were alive in the 70's as far as I can tell.
There aren't many good players or even enthusiastic players under 25 years old-thats for sure.
Most of the younger patrons in the room are there for social reasons not competitive ones.
I suspect it's the same for the majority of league play as well.






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12-17-2007, 10:18 PM

i was there and it was sad, last time I was there in 89 it was booming and there was action on the rail, now you couldnt get anything down on anyone, the casino was empty, rooms are almost free, I'm not a doom and gloomer but I just dont see that gig lasting much longer, sux.


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12-17-2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy
i was there and it was sad, last time I was there in 89 it was booming and there was action on the rail, now you couldnt get anything down on anyone, the casino was empty, rooms are almost free, I'm not a doom and gloomer but I just dont see that gig lasting much longer, sux.
Thank you Fatboy,
This is exactly what I was saying in a previous thread, and people were basically telling me I was crazy and didn't know what I was talking about. I said the same things about the casinos being dead and the overall caliber of tournament had seriously declined. I remember what this event was when it was great. I guess most people here don't because a lot of people basically told me I was full of sh#t when I said entry used to be $300 and 1st place was 20K. People don't realize that these tournaments used to get 128 top pro players in them, not 20 top pro's, 50 California pro's, and the rest shortstops and bangers like it is now. I noticed the exact same things as you when I was there last, the casino was dead but at least there was dealers on the floor. We tried walking to some ot the other casinos in the area and could not even get into a table game in any other casino. I really think Reno as a gambling town is in some trouble as well.
  
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12-18-2007, 12:01 AM

The economy and the proliferation of nice Indian casinos in California has had an impact on everything in Reno. Traveling expenses are higher and the East Coast has many more local and regional tournaments, albeit lower prize money. Usually the pros that are in Vegas or LA will swing up to Reno for the tournament. However there is usually enough talent that anyone would enjoy watching. Casinos get all the cash, so there isn't much action.


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12-18-2007, 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadon
The economy and the proliferation of nice Indian casinos in California has had an impact on everything in Reno. Traveling expenses are higher and the East Coast has many more local and regional tournaments, albeit lower prize money. Usually the pros that are in Vegas or LA will swing up to Reno for the tournament. However there is usually enough talent that anyone would enjoy watching. Casinos get all the cash, so there isn't much action.

100% right, thats why there is shit action in Vegas pool rooms. Reno is getting hammered by the N. Ca. casinos, Vegas is surviving because its Vegas and just not gambling or is the Mecca of gambling so all gamblers have to come here and go off<------dumb asses.


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12-18-2007, 12:18 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigdog
Thank you Fatboy,
This is exactly what I was saying in a previous thread, and people were basically telling me I was crazy and didn't know what I was talking about. I said the same things about the casinos being dead and the overall caliber of tournament had seriously declined. I remember what this event was when it was great. I guess most people here don't because a lot of people basically told me I was full of sh#t when I said entry used to be $300 and 1st place was 20K. People don't realize that these tournaments used to get 128 top pro players in them, not 20 top pro's, 50 California pro's, and the rest shortstops and bangers like it is now. I noticed the exact same things as you when I was there last, the casino was dead but at least there was dealers on the floor. We tried walking to some ot the other casinos in the area and could not even get into a table game in any other casino. I really think Reno as a gambling town is in some trouble as well.

Your right too, I was probably in the bottom 1/3rd of the field, in 89 last time I was there I would have been perhaps the worst player there, I had dinner with either you or your dad then too. Reno is in deep shit.

Vegas might be too in a few years-they have made it impossible to win here, not thats its ever possible but now you blow your $$$ so fast nobody is getting any "Gamble" for your money, it goes fast. Vegas is cutting costs and getting to greedy, when people get more gamble for their $$ and comps from their local casios they will stop comming here, then the casino's will over react and there will be good games. This will happen in the next 4-6 years.


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12-18-2007, 01:17 AM

I missed the Sands 9-Ball Open this year due to a serious case of food poisoning, but have to ask those who attended if the Spectator Seating arrangement had improved since the Bar Box Tourney last March ... If not, I can fully understand why spectator attendance is way down ... I did notice the Player List did not include many of the regulars, so I guess it's true what my old friend told me over 35 years ago ... "Nothing lasts forever" ...


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12-18-2007, 01:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8PoolPlayer
I missed the Sands 9-Ball Open this year due to a serious case of food poisoning,
glad your alive....but you would have got food poisoning eating at the Sands, i'm still recovering.


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12-18-2007, 03:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownCityCorey
Say, I was just watching the SVB vs. Montal & Archer vs. Tadd video on OTBNTV.com and I was saddened to see that there were only like 4 people in the audience!!!

WTF! Best players in the world-no draw whatsoever.
It snowed on Friday and Saturday and chains were required going over the pass. This prevented people from driving up. The snow is also the reason why there are no more accustats in Reno; Pat Flemming crashed his van with all of the equipment and vowed to never come in the Winter time again.

I understand what you're saying, but I didn't see you there either???? You give it a big thumbs down, but if you're not part of the solution...you're part of the problem. Overall, it was a successful event and had 20 more players than last year.
  
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12-18-2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownCityCorey
Say, I was just watching the SVB vs. Montal & Archer vs. Tadd video on OTBNTV.com and I was saddened to see that there were only like 4 people in the audience!!!

WTF! Best players in the world-no draw whatsoever.
Reno in December is not the place to be. Too cold, too hard to get there, too long a drive if ifey weather.
  
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