Sold 1971 Joss Block Letter Cue With 11 Shafts

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Callaghan

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
For your consideration, a 1971 Joss cue. This is a block letter, original Janes, Stroud and Scruggs team cue. Four sharp points (I believe to be ebony) with tasteful gunsight inlay (mother of pearl). There are three sharp veneers in each point. Shaft is stained birdseye maple. Each ivory window on the cue is framed with a black veneer and the sides are enclosed with a wood veneer. In the center of each window is a beautiful gunsight design with mother of pearl. Everything white in this cue is ivory. Butt cap is solid black material I can’t identify . This cue has the less frequently seen 3/8X10 pin and a flat faced, solid ivory joint. The wrap is black and white speckled and has a nicely worn/ironed feel. Cosmetically, the cue is in great shape. I can’t find any dents, dings, or scrapes. I have taken a picture of a spot on the ivory joint that I believe was repaired at some point. You can see that at one time, the joint had a shallow chip, but it has been professionally repaired so that when you run your finger over the area, it is completely flat and smooth. The butt of the cue has a very very minor lift. I have attached two pictures, one which shows the joint and pin in the “lifted” position, and one where it is completely flat against the table. I am keen to disclose this as it has the ability to affect playability. For me, I have found the lift to be so minor as to not compromise play for somebody at my skill level. Your mileage and preference may vary in this department. For any serious buyer, I am more than happy to send an iPhone video of the butt rolling over the table so you can see for yourself and judge. If you’ve looked at my pictures, you probably noticed that cue comes with 11 shafts. My understanding is that this cue was originally purchased and owned by Michael Seidel, a regarded one-handed air pool player. Over his years of ownership, which spanned from the 70s all the way to the late 90s, he managed to accumulate all of these shafts. I do not have caliper tools here at my house, but I know that the shafts range from 11.5mm on the small end to 12.7mm on the high end. Five of these shafts have brand new tips which appear to be Kamui Black, but I can’t confirm this. None of the shafts have anything more than a mild to moderate taper roll. Two of them roll dead straight. I have paired each one of these shafts with the butt, and some pair better than others. Again, for a very serious buyer, I’m happy to get on a phone call or do whatever I can to go into details regarding the different shafts so that you can get comfortable. If I’m being completely honest, it feels to me that each one of these shafts has been very well played. If I were going to keep this cue and use it regularly for play, I would undoubtedly purchase a new shaft or two. The cue also comes with a matching joint pin protector and two shaft joint protectors. The butt alone weighs 17.2 ounces. The butt with the shaft that I like the best, weigh in together at 20.6 ounces. Again, for a very serious buyer who is interested, I can weigh each one of these shafts individually if that’s something that you need to know. Thank you for looking; feel free to ask questions and I will do my best to answer. Price: $1,900




















 
I have seen cues for sale with a 1/dozen shafts but this thread sets the record based on what I’ve seen.
 
I received a message from another member here, Colonel, about this cue. He had some excellent information that I want to share :

1. If this is a ‘71 then Scruggs wasn’t at shop then. He started there in ‘68 with Danny and Bill but left in ‘70 and went back to work at the pool hall. When Danny and Bill had a disagreement over direction of the shop in late ‘71 Bill left the shop and went back out on the road and Danny lured Timmy back to the shop in January of ‘72 along with Bob Frey where they stayed until the left in ‘78 to start the Scruggs shop.

2. That Butt Cap isn’t original to the cue. All original Block Letter Joss cues had white Delrin Caps. The Logo on the replacement Butt Cap is original to Joss which would seem to indicate it was replaced at Joss. I’m sure Stephen Janes might be able to lend some insight as to material used.
 
I received a message from another member here, Colonel, about this cue. He had some excellent information that I want to share :

1. If this is a ‘71 then Scruggs wasn’t at shop then. He started there in ‘68 with Danny and Bill but left in ‘70 and went back to work at the pool hall. When Danny and Bill had a disagreement over direction of the shop in late ‘71 Bill left the shop and went back out on the road and Danny lured Timmy back to the shop in January of ‘72 along with Bob Frey where they stayed until the left in ‘78 to start the Scruggs shop.

2. That Butt Cap isn’t original to the cue. All original Block Letter Joss cues had white Delrin Caps. The Logo on the replacement Butt Cap is original to Joss which would seem to indicate it was replaced at Joss. I’m sure Stephen Janes might be able to lend some insight as to material used.

They didn't have a "disagreement", Bill wanted to move west. That's why he called his cues Josswest, they were still friendly but now geographically distant
 
They didn't have a "disagreement", Bill wanted to move west. That's why he called his cues Josswest, they were still friendly but now geographically distant
Call me a 'homer' but i think the cues that Bill made here in Tulsa from '74-'78 were some of the greatest ever. This cue here for sale is really something.
 
They didn't have a "disagreement", Bill wanted to move west. That's why he called his cues Josswest, they were still friendly but now geographically distant
Not exactly. Bill was from Colorado and went by the name Colorado Slim as a road player. After several years of success with Joss, Danny wanted to move from doing customs as they had been doing and become a production line cue maker like McDermott as he felt volume would increase profitability. Bill wanted to continue to do customs but more so was missing his previous life as a road player and left the shop and went back on the road before building Customs under the Joss West logo. I didn’t infer they didn’t remain friends, they just disagreed on direction. After returning in ‘72 Tim & Bob remained until ‘78 when Joss finally became a full production shop. Tim and Bob then started the Scruggs shop in an old meat packing plant that was owned by Bob’s uncle and sitting empty at the time.

I knew all these men as my father was one of the first sellers of both Joss and Scruggs cues as well as several other Maryland cue makers out of his hall in Maryland. I know you’re into cues deeply and that there are many versions of stories on numerous cue makers from my home state, many close to accurate but not entirely accurate. The info I provided Callaghan was intended for nothing other than to attempt to help him as I know the history of these Maryland shops well, I spent a lot of time in them. Have a great day
 
This cue would be perfect if you only had 1 more shaft to go with it. lol. Would you be willing to sell just one of the shafts? It would need to be straight and around 13mm. If so how much?
 
This cue would be perfect if you only had 1 more shaft to go with it. lol. Would you be willing to sell just one of the shafts? It would need to be straight and around 13mm. If so how much?

Hello,

I don’t have a shaft in the lot at 13mm unfortunately.
 
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