a simple ? for other room owners

dukeboy1977

dukeboy1977

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi guys, my mothers' boyfriend owns a pool room in Wesleyville, PA called BANKSHOT BILLIARDS and his buisness is dead...Hardly anybody goes there anymore, so I thought maybe some of you could help me give him some advice in picking his buisness back up a lil'. I know he has some work to do, but he seems to just be relying on people going there, strictly out of good faith. I mean, he does NO advertising, runs NO tournaments, and there is no alcohol allowed. When he used-to try having tournaments, he only wanted local kids to play in them, I was NOT allowed to play :eek: :( , so I NEVER tried to get anyone there cause if I can't play, they wouldn't be allowed to play either. I understand local kids are NOT gonna keep you in buisness, local PLAYERS are, but he wants to know how to get the players there. He won't listen to my ideas, but I plan on printing this out for him after some good responses, so he can see other people's ideas and get a better "feel" for what you think will work. I do know what I would do if it were my place, but its not, so please, give me your suggestions. THANKS in advance, Jeff
 
I would suggest that he put the place up for sale. It's much easier to keep people coming into your place than it is to get them back after you've done something to cause them to leave. I don't know the guy or his situation, but from your post and what I've seen way too many times over the last 25 years, I'm gonna offer my "profile" on the guy(in fun).
#1. This guy can't run 3 balls.
#2. This guy thinks that he's doing everybody a favor by providing us poor pool players a place to go.
#3. This guy is a nit. He'll be the first person to offer his opinion on how someone plays, and it gives him great pleasure to knock someones action. He thinks that he needs to look out for the little guy.
#4. This guy thinks he knows it all. Don't waste your time offering him suggestions. (see #2 above).

You can bust your ass to get this guy back up and running, but within a couple of months, he'll go back to #4 above and run everything back into the ground. The poolroom business is a tough nut to crack and I've seen way too many rooms with potential fail due to the owners being lazy, ignorant, or unwilling to change. I wish him luck.
 
Honestly, without some more information about your location. demographics. square footage, type of tables, etc etc etc. Its hard to give advice that actually means anything:( . I can tell from Google that your place is close to the General Electric plant. Ever give free pool to GE employees during lunch hour? There CAN be a 100 decent suggestions from people on this forum but without giving out more info you will be at a loss. It cost 4 times as much to bring in a new customer as opposed to keeping an old one. So if your Moms bf has burned bridges he should expect some heavy upfront costs to bring them back in. If hes not willing to do that; I would also suggest selling out:( . This is a slump in the industry we are going into. It is NOT the time for people to work short work weeks or make tons of money. These days you work 80 hours a week just to survive. Not a business for anyone who wants to get rich quick.
 
OK, maybe I won't print this lol

sliprock said:
I would suggest that he put the place up for sale. It's much easier to keep people coming into your place than it is to get them back after you've done something to cause them to leave. I don't know the guy or his situation, but from your post and what I've seen way too many times over the last 25 years, I'm gonna offer my "profile" on the guy(in fun).
#1. This guy can't run 3 balls.
#2. This guy thinks that he's doing everybody a favor by providing us poor pool players a place to go.
#3. This guy is a nit. He'll be the first person to offer his opinion on how someone plays, and it gives him great pleasure to knock someones action. He thinks that he needs to look out for the little guy.
#4. This guy thinks he knows it all. Don't waste your time offering him suggestions. (see #2 above).

You can bust your ass to get this guy back up and running, but within a couple of months, he'll go back to #4 above and run everything back into the ground. The poolroom business is a tough nut to crack and I've seen way too many rooms with potential fail due to the owners being lazy, ignorant, or unwilling to change. I wish him luck.
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OK, maybe I won't print this. lol Your number 1 is spot on, he can't play very well. Your number 2 is partially correct, as he does IMO feel like its their "obligation" to come bring him buisness, and its definitely not! Your number 3 is waay off...He won't knock anyone's "action", and he keeps to himself way to much IMO...He will however, give someone advice on who to play IF they ask him, but he won't initiate that talk. Your number 4 is quite close, as I AM done giving more suggestions cause' he always does what he "thinks" is best, but when you don't KNOW the proper ways, its like taking a blind man through a maze...Eventually you may get through, but you do more bumping into problems than necessary lol I've thought of getting a loan and buying the place myself, but the way buisness is right now, I'm sure that would fail quickly. I'm at a loss of ideas now, and that don't happen often, lol, I just HATE to see pool-rooms fail due to management problems...But I guess its inevitable when things are this way. THANKS for any posts guys, but I dunno if I should really even TRY to help now...I may have been too premature with my question, sorry for wasting your time.
 
It is not a waste of time.

dukeboy1977 said:
OK, maybe I won't print this. lol Your number 1 is spot on, he can't play very well. Your number 2 is partially correct, as he does IMO feel like its their "obligation" to come bring him buisness, and its definitely not! Your number 3 is waay off...He won't knock anyone's "action", and he keeps to himself way to much IMO...He will however, give someone advice on who to play IF they ask him, but he won't initiate that talk. Your number 4 is quite close, as I AM done giving more suggestions cause' he always does what he "thinks" is best, but when you don't KNOW the proper ways, its like taking a blind man through a maze...Eventually you may get through, but you do more bumping into problems than necessary lol I've thought of getting a loan and buying the place myself, but the way buisness is right now, I'm sure that would fail quickly. I'm at a loss of ideas now, and that don't happen often, lol, I just HATE to see pool-rooms fail due to management problems...But I guess its inevitable when things are this way. THANKS for any posts guys, but I dunno if I should really even TRY to help now...I may have been too premature with my question, sorry for wasting your time.
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Not only do you learn from what we have to say but we also learn from what everyone else has to say. There are some very wise and intelligent people on this forum with a lot of ideas and experience. Just provide the information asked for and there will be a wealth of information to follow. Not always right or not always fits a certain location but all usefull nontheless.
 
I may have been a llittle hard on the guy. I don't know him, but have seen it so many times where people that have little knowledge of the game open up rooms and fail. It drives me nuts. They open up with a bang. After a few months, they realize that the tables aren't making much money so they start focusing on things like poker games or cherry master machines. Stuff that only hurts the pool and then one day they look around and the place is empty and they have no clue as to what happened. These guy's here can give lots of good advice, and if this guy seems like he really wants to get it going again, offer to help out. It would be a shame to see another room shut down.
 
yeah, but...

sliprock said:
I may have been a llittle hard on the guy. I don't know him, but have seen it so many times where people that have little knowledge of the game open up rooms and fail. It drives me nuts. They open up with a bang. After a few months, they realize that the tables aren't making much money so they start focusing on things like poker games or cherry master machines. Stuff that only hurts the pool and then one day they look around and the place is empty and they have no clue as to what happened. These guy's here can give lots of good advice, and if this guy seems like he really wants to get it going again, offer to help out. It would be a shame to see another room shut down.
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I understand what you're saying, THANK YOU. He may think otherwise, but I'm positive that one problem his pool-hall now has is he brought his nephew in to work for him, and found a reason to fire me a while ago to do that. The whole situation was bad, and we didn't even talk for about 1 year...Then I got in my accident and because he was with my mother, the both of us dropped it and now we're like best friends. He does SAY he wants to get busy again, of course, but nothing I suggest or offer to help him do has had any bearing thus far, so maybe its best he does shut it down :confused: :confused: ? You're exactly right, it WOULD be a shame for yet another decent pool-room to close, but whatcha gonna do? I can't FORCE the guy to agree to my decisions, I can only suggest and sit back to watch and see what happens. I know there have been some BAD decisions made there, but who am I to criticize? (sighs) I guess things will be the way they're meant to be? Anyways, thanks for any help or suggestions guys, Jeff
 
lil info on the place for any suggestions

cueandcushion said:
Honestly, without some more information about your location. demographics. square footage, type of tables, etc etc etc. Its hard to give advice that actually means anything:( . I can tell from Google that your place is close to the General Electric plant. Ever give free pool to GE employees during lunch hour? There CAN be a 100 decent suggestions from people on this forum but without giving out more info you will be at a loss. It cost 4 times as much to bring in a new customer as opposed to keeping an old one. So if your Moms bf has burned bridges he should expect some heavy upfront costs to bring them back in. If hes not willing to do that; I would also suggest selling out:( . This is a slump in the industry we are going into. It is NOT the time for people to work short work weeks or make tons of money. These days you work 80 hours a week just to survive. Not a business for anyone who wants to get rich quick.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll give some info but I'm not sure if it really will help. His location is on Buffalo RD. in Wesleyville, PA right across from a country-fair store. ( I'm not exact on the address ) He has GANDY tables, (5) 9-footers, and (6) over-size 8-footers. They're divided between 2 rooms by a wall with big open windows in it. He opens at 5pm so lunch-time for GE would be out of the question. He has a dart machine, jukebox, soda machine, and 1 snack machine also. He has nothing in there to really distract attention away from pool, so I can't see that being a problem. I'm sure there have been some bridges burned with some of the better players that used-to go there, but I have no idea on how to even fix that...And yes, I've talked to some of them myself. I'm under the assumption that some would maybe come back as long as there were people in there to gamble with, but I'm the only one and I'm hardly there for the same reason. lol I know a few won't go in there because of who's in charge of the place usually (his nephew), but I don't DARE bad-mouth him to mom's b/f...believe me! lol I know another reason some don't go there is its not kept up as it should be, he don't even have a rail-brush in the place :eek: . I'm sure the tables get brushed only once a week, though they're barely used. If it were mine, they'd be brushed every night, it'd be cleaned properly, I'd get a bar-box in there for league practice, and maybe even a team out of there. I'd move some of the machines around to better places, change some of the music on the jukebox, get it new blinds and curtains due to them being filthy, and I'd interact with my customers more...Maybe even play with some of them once in a while if they wanted to. I'd DEFINITELY hold tourneys for average players, AND better players on different weeks. This is just a few of MY ideas, are they any good?
 
dukeboy1977 said:
OK, I'll give some info but I'm not sure if it really will help. His location is on Buffalo RD. in Wesleyville, PA right across from a country-fair store. ( I'm not exact on the address ) He has GANDY tables, (5) 9-footers, and (6) over-size 8-footers. They're divided between 2 rooms by a wall with big open windows in it. He opens at 5pm so lunch-time for GE would be out of the question. He has a dart machine, jukebox, soda machine, and 1 snack machine also. He has nothing in there to really distract attention away from pool, so I can't see that being a problem. I'm sure there have been some bridges burned with some of the better players that used-to go there, but I have no idea on how to even fix that...And yes, I've talked to some of them myself. I'm under the assumption that some would maybe come back as long as there were people in there to gamble with, but I'm the only one and I'm hardly there for the same reason. lol I know a few won't go in there because of who's in charge of the place usually (his nephew), but I don't DARE bad-mouth him to mom's b/f...believe me! lol I know another reason some don't go there is its not kept up as it should be, he don't even have a rail-brush in the place :eek: . I'm sure the tables get brushed only once a week, though they're barely used. If it were mine, they'd be brushed every night, it'd be cleaned properly, I'd get a bar-box in there for league practice, and maybe even a team out of there. I'd move some of the machines around to better places, change some of the music on the jukebox, get it new blinds and curtains due to them being filthy, and I'd interact with my customers more...Maybe even play with some of them once in a while if they wanted to. I'd DEFINITELY hold tourneys for average players, AND better players on different weeks. This is just a few of MY ideas, are they any good?
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Jeff,
you're right about cleaning the place up, it would help.
The biggest problem I see are the young kids that have no respect for anything, whether it's the equipment or the other customers.
The last time I was there, I had to listen to some 15 year old girl on the next table talking about sucking her boyfriend off. When I said something to her, I was told to F#@#@ off.
I haven't been back since (2 years).
 
Jeff,

If he sells the tables, he won't get much. When my room was auctioned, the tables went cheap. Maybe $300-400 each. Everytime I drive past BankShots, which is every day, I don't see much of anyone there. I know what TBone says about the clientelle there. The language I've heard from those kids is just disgusting!! Who wants to play pool with that going on next to them? Just more kids, and there's the problem.

Still playing at the Crown?

Dan Amish
aka Padron
Former owner of Great Lakes Pool & Billiard Academy
 
yep

tbone1213 said:
Jeff,
you're right about cleaning the place up, it would help.
The biggest problem I see are the young kids that have no respect for anything, whether it's the equipment or the other customers.
The last time I was there, I had to listen to some 15 year old girl on the next table talking about sucking her boyfriend off. When I said something to her, I was told to F#@#@ off.
I haven't been back since (2 years).
Click to expand...

Yeah, it would definitely be a plus to clean the place up Tom, thanks for your response. The MAIN problem I see, is that stuff is allowed to go on there, nothing is said or done about the mouths, or their activity there. These kids are just allowed to run rampant, and its not right! I really wish players like you would go back there, but I know as long as its in this condition, that ain't happening.
 
Padron said:
Jeff,

If he sells the tables, he won't get much. When my room was auctioned, the tables went cheap. Maybe $300-400 each. Everytime I drive past BankShots, which is every day, I don't see much of anyone there. I know what TBone says about the clientelle there. The language I've heard from those kids is just disgusting!! Who wants to play pool with that going on next to them? Just more kids, and there's the problem.

Still playing at the Crown?

Dan Amish
aka Padron
Former owner of Great Lakes Pool & Billiard Academy
Click to expand...

Nah, I don't go to the Crown often. I was up there a few days ago with a buddy and they were like "where you been?" lol Its just no fun going up there, the clientelle is ignorant and prissy, as are the employees, so I just keep to myself anymore. I play some at Bankshot, but mostly I just play leagues. There's noone to play anymore anyways, its like everyone's vanished or something! The issue is that the kids are allowed to do that crap, noone watches them like they should, and NOTHING is done cause' "they're bringing him buisness" :eek: :eek: WTF is that?!?!? They're KILLING his buisness, and he must not see that!
 
Cleaning

I would definitely start with cleaning. I dont mean cleaning like 2 hours of dusting. I mean cleaning that takes literally 50- 60 hours. Scrubbing...yes scrubbing the walls, paneling, pictures, decorations, every surface. Bathrooms should be at least 4 hours a piece to do them right. Every single surface with bleach and pine-sol. Scrubbing the light fixtures. Not wiping them down. Wiping wont take off nicotine. Clean the areas of light fixtures or appliances you never see. Tops of fridges, tops of shelves. Everything will smell better in the end. Change every light bulb in the place. Newer, brighter lights with the cleaner atmosphere will create a new image even quicker that remodeling. Paint is cheap. Once it is clean, add some paint....SOMEWHERE. Doesnt have to be the entire place. Just the walls, just the bar area, just the trim. For $30 you can liven up an area. Adding full spectrum lights or even some color light bulbs can change the mood. The next cleaning is your customer base. Clean out people that are harming business more than helping it. Same with employees if there are any.

Okinawarob is right. A favorite saying with me is you cannot let the inmates run the asylum. Keeping your customers behaving is a constant chore you must stay on. Once they get out of hand they feel it is their god given right to sit on the tables or cuss out employees or treat your place with disrespect. Loud kids? Warn them, ask them to quite down...If no response? politely ask them to pay their time and leave. They will eventually get the hint. I am in that situation a lot. Some days you are burned out and dont want the constant "We aren't doing anything wrong" whine...but in the long run you have to stay on it.

The other suggestion to bring back some of your players. Start with one table. Completely tear it down, clean it, recover it with new cloth. Then RESERVE it for regulars only. KEEP A COVER ON IT. KEEP A RESERVED SIGN ON IT. Keeping a table in best condition away from smoke and dust will seperate the people who are serious about playing and the bangers. Also put the drink tables, bar stools, chairs (whatever you have) that are in the BEST condition around THAT table.

These are suggestions that are less than $400 and will probably take you a week or two to finish. I just thought it would be a good place to start to test the waters without a ton of investment.

Also go online to a printing website. ( I use vistaprint.com) and print some coupons for playing pool. Only give them to people you WANT to come back. This long run approach will keep the clientle that spends money and treats your place with respect coming back. Its more of a long term thing, but needed to insure repeat business.

Those are my starter ideas for now.
 
well said sir!!

okinawarob said:
I had an owner that never showed up or barely talked to customers and let the people do anything they wanted in this pool bar when I was watching it for two months before I bought it from him. I went there everyday for two months and asked myself what can I do that would make this place better. The music was not up to date in the jukebox and it costs $1 to play 2 songs. In one month they might make $40 off the jukebox. After I bought it I updated the music and opened the jukebox for free music. It kept playing the whole month and the customers liked the new owner right from the start. I gave them some service with the music.
I had customers who would get drunk and ask my staff "wheres my food b***h". I would refund the money and show them the door. One time I had only 15 people in the club and had to kick out 12 because the group had a few idiots. The three that stayed told others, business picked up after 6 months of getting things under control. Never let customers control you, it is your place and your rules. Anyone who fought inside or outside around my place could not come back in period. I might give them a chance once more if they came back and acted like they found a good head. Any signs of bad a** thinking=goodbye. I had staff that only talked to close friends and only completed orders for everyone else. If the staff wont give the proper service to all that walk thru these doors they must be changed. I layed fliers every week for 6 months straight in a 50 mile range anywhere I could post them. Monday nights I was closed and every Monday I would go post my ads making sure I overlapped coverage. I changed the cloth on the tables to the best cloth and conditions in any room around. Then in 6 months I changed them again just to keep them better than anyone else. I now keep a 10 month rotation. I would retip cues for my customers for free to keep them playing pool. A box of LEPRO's cost me $30 but the service to my customers made me much more. The respect for services offered priceless. I used the profits to elevate the room little by little every month until I was happy with how it worked. I targeted the best service and security to women to bring in the men. I dont have kids here since it has a bar but I like adults they have their money to spend not mom and dad's. An owner must meet and greet everyone they make eye contact with and you should make eye contact with everyone that walks in your room. I took a polaroid camera and started to make a photo wall of the customers letting them sign the photo with a marker and pin it up on the wall. I made it become their bar. I gave markers and blank coasters to everyone and they drew on them and hung those up on the wall like artwork. Everytime they brought a new friend they had to show them the old photos and would ask to make another with this new friend to hang on the wall. Making the new customer have a piece of stock in this bar on the wall. If you get tired of owning your club sell it. If you want to make it popular you must do the leg work. Customers dont owe you s**t. You owe them, they pay for your way of life. If you want to live better take care of them better. After saying these words I am going back to make more fliers! I wish all owners a happy holiday season.
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This is a VERY true statement sir...VERY well said! check your "user CP", I left you good rep points for this. :D Thanks, Jeff
 
again, nicely said!!

cueandcushion said:
I would definitely start with cleaning. I dont mean cleaning like 2 hours of dusting. I mean cleaning that takes literally 50- 60 hours. Scrubbing...yes scrubbing the walls, paneling, pictures, decorations, every surface. Bathrooms should be at least 4 hours a piece to do them right. Every single surface with bleach and pine-sol. Scrubbing the light fixtures. Not wiping them down. Wiping wont take off nicotine. Clean the areas of light fixtures or appliances you never see. Tops of fridges, tops of shelves. Everything will smell better in the end. Change every light bulb in the place. Newer, brighter lights with the cleaner atmosphere will create a new image even quicker that remodeling. Paint is cheap. Once it is clean, add some paint....SOMEWHERE. Doesnt have to be the entire place. Just the walls, just the bar area, just the trim. For $30 you can liven up an area. Adding full spectrum lights or even some color light bulbs can change the mood. The next cleaning is your customer base. Clean out people that are harming business more than helping it. Same with employees if there are any.

Okinawarob is right. A favorite saying with me is you cannot let the inmates run the asylum. Keeping your customers behaving is a constant chore you must stay on. Once they get out of hand they feel it is their god given right to sit on the tables or cuss out employees or treat your place with disrespect. Loud kids? Warn them, ask them to quite down...If no response? politely ask them to pay their time and leave. They will eventually get the hint. I am in that situation a lot. Some days you are burned out and dont want the constant "We aren't doing anything wrong" whine...but in the long run you have to stay on it.

The other suggestion to bring back some of your players. Start with one table. Completely tear it down, clean it, recover it with new cloth. Then RESERVE it for regulars only. KEEP A COVER ON IT. KEEP A RESERVED SIGN ON IT. Keeping a table in best condition away from smoke and dust will seperate the people who are serious about playing and the bangers. Also put the drink tables, bar stools, chairs (whatever you have) that are in the BEST condition around THAT table.

These are suggestions that are less than $400 and will probably take you a week or two to finish. I just thought it would be a good place to start to test the waters without a ton of investment.

Also go online to a printing website. ( I use vistaprint.com) and print some coupons for playing pool. Only give them to people you WANT to come back. This long run approach will keep the clientle that spends money and treats your place with respect coming back. Its more of a long term thing, but needed to insure repeat business.

Those are my starter ideas for now.
Click to expand...

This is yet another well said post! Your comments about cleaning it are well noted, cause thats how I'd do it and love to see it done! Yeah, I'm kinda a neat freak! lol Good rep points to you also sir!
 
Dejavu!:D...............................

sliprock said:
I would suggest that he put the place up for sale. It's much easier to keep people coming into your place than it is to get them back after you've done something to cause them to leave. I don't know the guy or his situation, but from your post and what I've seen way too many times over the last 25 years, I'm gonna offer my "profile" on the guy(in fun).
#1. This guy can't run 3 balls.
#2. This guy thinks that he's doing everybody a favor by providing us poor pool players a place to go.
#3. This guy is a nit. He'll be the first person to offer his opinion on how someone plays, and it gives him great pleasure to knock someones action. He thinks that he needs to look out for the little guy.
#4. This guy thinks he knows it all. Don't waste your time offering him suggestions. (see #2 above).

You can bust your ass to get this guy back up and running, but within a couple of months, he'll go back to #4 above and run everything back into the ground. The poolroom business is a tough nut to crack and I've seen way too many rooms with potential fail due to the owners being lazy, ignorant, or unwilling to change. I wish him luck.
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