An 8-ball break question.

Let me throw another log into the fire...

When using outside english on the side break, squirt and curve come into play. Outside makes it harder to hit the second ball squarely, and that's why a lot of players use inside, instead. But as Blackjack and I pointed out, position is better if using outside. His idea of getting the cueball to center table requires more english than does my strategy, that's why I like my idea of end rail position better than his, as mine requires less side spin, thus more accuracy of the hit.

Well, guess what helps for overcoming this squirt/curve problem?....That's right...a Predator!!!!! It makes for the perfect 8-ball break cue. No hard, fancy tips, just my Predator with a Moori.....BOOOM!

Let the flaming begin! :)

Jeff Livingston
 
Snapshot9 said:
I have noticed a few guys mentioning they play in the APA, which IMO I would rate behind the BCA and Valley. Does the APA still have a handicapsystem that only rates a top player as a 7? The less handicap definitions used in a league, the more disparities that exist between actual skill levels.Apa used to go from 1 or 2 to 7, Valley here goes up to 13, and of course
BCA is much more defined. What I am saying is that a low 5 in the APA and a high 5 in the APA would be a larger swing in actual skill levels than the Valley or the BCA. The more handicap skill levels, the more exact to actual skill levels it is.
Click to expand...

Ive only been playing pool for 9-10 months and this was my first ever session in any league obviously. Im ranked a 5 currently and id consider myself a weak 5 at best. However the only real change ive had to make beign a 5 instead of a 4 is that now I have to play a smarter game than before. There is a lot more wrong with the APA rating system than not having enough numbers... People go up and or down without any real reasoning. Also most of the 4's should be 5's or 6's and a bunch of the 5's should be borderline 7's but its still a lot of fun and its also challenging which is the reason im in the league :)
 
Last edited:
I don't use the side break anymore since the 8 on the break in my league doesn't win any more. One thing I can't believe I haven't seen mentioned here. Did I miss it or is it only me? When using the second ball break there is a tendency of the balls to group to the side of the table your breaking from. Almost like they all just move over as a group. Anyone know how to avoid this. I remember trying all different spins and not being able to keep this from happening. I'd say it happened just as often as the 8 was made.
 
Loun said:
Ive only been playing pool for 9-10 months and this was my first ever session in any league obviously. Im ranked a 5 currently and id consider myself a weak 5 at best. However the only real change ive had to make beign a 5 instead of a 4 is that now I have to play a smarter game than before. There is a lot more wrong with the APA rating system than not having enough numbers... People go up and or down without any real reasoning. Also most of the 4's should be 5's or 6's and a bunch of the 5's should be borderline 7's but its still a lot of fun and its also challenging which is the reason im in the league :)
Click to expand...

Actually that's a very inaccurate description.

You are right that you have to be smarter as a 5, than as a 4.

People go up and down based on their competency of play. This is not a subjective system. Stats are kept every week, so it is a useful tool for determining a players current skill. Borderline players will bounce back and forth, because it's better than locking them at one level. It gives players the opportunity to develop to the next level and incorporate the new strategies that you have to learn (i.e. like you said playing smarter as a 5) without virtually destroying the players ability to be successful by being locked at the higher level. Thus, bouncing borderline players is a good system. Also, the movement of players like that, provides more information for more accurate handicapping. If a player is strong at one level, then it's worthwhile to challenge them to perform at the next level. If they don't succeed at that level, then they'll bounce back and forth. If they meet the test, and succeed at that level, then clearly they were underrated before. Moving them up provides more challenging and competitive play, and allows them to play more games per match.


Note: This is for normal play.

The usual rebuttals usually applies in situations where players are intentionally trying to manipulate the system. In every system a player can try to intentionally cheat the system. Intentional cheating has to be handled via different methods.


But that post and response is getting quite off-topic. Any further discussion of this should definitely be moved to a different thread.
 
I was replying to the post in this thread discussing the APA and how ratings worked so therefore I thought it was relevant. I think the 8ball break has been discussed et nasuim and all aspect of it have been brought up. Its more a matter of taking what people have suggested and working it at a table to see what works and what doesnt. If breaking the 8 ball were that easy or if we could do it every time then league rules would all change and it would not be a win anymore, since at that point pool wouldnt be fun and they would all be no inning games.

However id love to see a thread discussing the rating system of the APA because although I think they do what they can to try to keep it fair... and there definitely is sandbagging that goes on which hurts the acuracy of the system but from what ive seen it doesnt seem to have ryhme or reason sometimes for what happens.
 
Last edited:
Blackjack said:
Snipped out image
Click to expand...

Hey Blackjack,

This exactly how I break but somewhere I read to use inside english instead of outside. I notice you use low outside and was wondering if there is a major advantage to using one over the other.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Snapshot9 said:
We have leagues where I live that the 8 on the break doesn't count
as a win, which I think is good because it helps focus on what's really
important which is:

1) Making a ball on the break
2) Having decent position with the cueball.
3) Having as good a spread on the table as possible..
Click to expand...

Those are excellent points. I would like to see in both 8 ball and 9 ball, the balls get spotted but you continue to shoot. I have seen some great hill-hill games that ended up quickly on the last game because of this. The excitement was lost.

Just my opinion.
 
"We've just had a very long one:"

Just saw them as i scanned the main page. Thanks for bringing it to my attention and it looks like FlickIt bumped them for me to notice em :) Will go take a look at those.
 
DDKoop said:
...I notice you use low outside and was wondering if there is a major advantage to using one over the other.
Click to expand...
If you hit that shot with inside english, the CB will have right hand (clockwise) spin coming off the side rail, which will usually take the CB down to the end rail. Right hand draw brings the CB back to the middle of the table as in the diagram.
 
Last edited:
CaptainJR said:
I don't use the side break anymore since the 8 on the break in my league doesn't win any more. One thing I can't believe I haven't seen mentioned here. Did I miss it or is it only me? When using the second ball break there is a tendency of the balls to group to the side of the table your breaking from. Almost like they all just move over as a group. Anyone know how to avoid this. I remember trying all different spins and not being able to keep this from happening. I'd say it happened just as often as the 8 was made.
Click to expand...


Am I the only one that this happens to?
 
highsea said:
If you hit that shot with inside english, the CB will have right hand (clockwise) spin coming off the side rail, which will usually take the CB down to the end rail. Right hand draw brings the CB back to the middle of the table as in the diagram.
Click to expand...

Thanks highsea. I'll be trying it tonight.

Much appreciated,
Koop
 
DDKoop said:
Hey Blackjack,

This exactly how I break but somewhere I read to use inside english instead of outside. I notice you use low outside and was wondering if there is a major advantage to using one over the other.

Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...

Players use inside so the cueball squirts out and then curves into the rack at a good angle. But then what happens?

The purpose of the outside is so the cueball comes off the rack and hits the side rail and spins off of that rail and comes more towards center table. In my break, though, I don't hit it as hard/low/side as Blackjack apparently does. This allows my cueball to gently go to the end rail as the spin has just about worn off as the cueball hits the side rail. ahhhhh....

I like mine better because making the cueball follow Blackjack's path is damn hard to do consistently. And there's so many balls on the table that the cueball is almost always hit by an object ball which usually screws up the mid-table shape anyway.

And remember, the purpose of the 8-ball break is to set-up the condidtions for winning the game, not to make the most balls on the break, as in 9-ball.

Jeff Livingston
 
CaptainJR said:
I don't use the side break anymore since the 8 on the break in my league doesn't win any more. One thing I can't believe I haven't seen mentioned here. Did I miss it or is it only me? When using the second ball break there is a tendency of the balls to group to the side of the table your breaking from. Almost like they all just move over as a group. Anyone know how to avoid this. I remember trying all different spins and not being able to keep this from happening. I'd say it happened just as often as the 8 was made.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to avoid this? The better strategy player will win these games, most of the time. We experienced, old farts have an advantage in these types of situations, Captain. Let's not give it away.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Why would you want to avoid this? The better strategy player will win these games, most of the time. We experienced, old farts have an advantage in these types of situations, Captain. Let's not give it away.

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


I know what you are talking about and I'm not saying that I haven't done this on purpose when I'm playing a player that I know I can beat. In that case I believe it helps prevent a lesser player form getting lucky and being able to get the rest of the way out.

However, if I'm playing good player. What I have in mind is making a ball on the break and not allowing him to get to the table.
 
CaptainJR said:
I know what you are talking about and I'm not saying that I haven't done this on purpose when I'm playing a player that I know I can beat. In that case I believe it helps prevent a lesser player form getting lucky and being able to get the rest of the way out.

However, if I'm playing good player. What I have in mind is making a ball on the break and not allowing him to get to the table.
Click to expand...

Then hammer the headball and see what happens. Too risky for me, though.

Even with a "good" player, I use the side break, as I think I'm as good an 8-baller (mentally) than anybody else. The odds of making a ball are about the same, I'd guess, so if I can't get out, I hook 'em so bad his mother would cry. If it don't look purdy, shoot it dirty. If it makes no sense, play defense. When in doubt, dirty out. :D

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
If it don't look purdy, shoot it dirty. If it makes no sense, play defense. When in doubt, dirty out. :D

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


You wouldn't be talking about the opposite of the dreaded 'I'll break that out later' syndrome, would you.

#$%$%%^#@*$&*&&^%# :o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top