Annoying "What If?" Question

BeeMan

BeeMan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey guys...
I don't know what the set of rules is called in a certain 8-ball format...but it involves the rule where if the breaker breaks the rack and scratches, the incoming player has ball in hand behing the head string, and has to shoot at a ball outside the 'kitchen'...

My question is, if the breaker breaks the rack, sinks all the balls except the black, (or even leaving the black on the table with a few other balls), and scratches......and all balls on table roll into the kitchen......what is the rule for the incoming player? can he/she ask for a re-rack? can any balls be spotted? etc etc
 
There is no spot shot in 8-ball.
If breaker makes all balls except the 8 ball, it's a tie. No player has any group.
If a player makes all solids in the break, he has to try to shoot a striped ball. IF he pockets it, the other player can shoot the 8 if he misses later in the inning.
IF the breaker makes all stripe balls except the 8 and scratches, the incoming player has to shoot a stripe ball outside of the kitchen.
If the breaker scratches and all balls ended in the kitchen, the incoming player has to kick or masse out of the kitchen line and back.
 
Joseph Cues said:
There is no spot shot in 8-ball.
If breaker makes all balls except the 8 ball, it's a tie. No player has any group.
If a player makes all solids in the break, he has to try to shoot a striped ball. IF he pockets it, the other player can shoot the 8 if he misses later in the inning.
IF the breaker makes all stripe balls except the 8 and scratches, the incoming player has to shoot a stripe ball outside of the kitchen.
If the breaker scratches and all balls ended in the kitchen, the incoming player has to kick or masse out of the kitchen line and back.
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Wow, what rules are you playing? The table is open after the break. A scratch is ball in hand. This "outside the kitchen" stuff is bar crap. Win the table man, and set the rules...
 
Top Spin said:
Wow, what rules are you playing? The table is open after the break. A scratch is ball in hand. This "outside the kitchen" stuff is bar crap. Win the table man, and set the rules...
Click to expand...

In BCA:
4.6 SCRATCH ON A LEGAL BREAK
If a player scratches on a legal break shot, (1) all balls pocketed remain pocketed (exception, the 8-ball: see rule 4.8), (2) it is a foul, (3) the table is open. Please Note: The incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string and may not shoot an object ball that is behind the head string, unless he first shoots the cue ball past the head string and causes the cue ball to come back behind the head string and hit the object ball.

In APA:
4a. A foul on a legal break results in ball-in-hand behind the head string and the incoming player may shoot any ball outside the head string. A ball that's dead center or "out" is playable. If it is "in", the ball is not playable. It is up to the opponent to call the cue ball "in" before it is shot.

In most "Bar" games:
The opponent has BIH behind the headstring, and the table is open. If all the balls are behind the headstring, the incoming player has to kick or masse so that the CB passes the headstring on the shot.

In all these cases, if all of the balls of one side were made on the break, the incoming player must shoot the remaining balls before shooting the 8 ball.

-CM
 
highsea said:
In BCA:
4.6 SCRATCH ON A LEGAL BREAK
If a player scratches on a legal break shot, (1) all balls pocketed remain pocketed (exception, the 8-ball: see rule 4.8), (2) it is a foul, (3) the table is open. Please Note: The incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string and may not shoot an object ball that is behind the head string, unless he first shoots the cue ball past the head string and causes the cue ball to come back behind the head string and hit the object ball.

In APA:
4a. A foul on a legal break results in ball-in-hand behind the head string and the incoming player may shoot any ball outside the head string. A ball that's dead center or "out" is playable. If it is "in", the ball is not playable. It is up to the opponent to call the cue ball "in" before it is shot.

In most "Bar" games:
The opponent has BIH behind the headstring, and the table is open. If all the balls are behind the headstring, the incoming player has to kick or masse so that the CB passes the headstring on the shot.

In all these cases, if all of the balls of one side were made on the break, the incoming player must shoot the remaining balls before shooting the 8 ball.

-CM
Click to expand...

Yup, all examples of bad rules...
 
First, sounds like "Bar Rules"... Be careful, these change to suit the location.
Second, in "Bar Rules" there can NOT be a re-rack 'cuz that takes more quarters. Same thing for spotting balls. The most common rule is that a shot must be taken at a ball in the kitchen via a kick.

My opinion is that most bar players are so far from being real pool players they can't play by those silly bar rules. But that's just me.....

Troy
BeeMan said:
Hey guys...
I don't know what the set of rules is called in a certain 8-ball format...but it involves the rule where if the breaker breaks the rack and scratches, the incoming player has ball in hand behing the head string, and has to shoot at a ball outside the 'kitchen'...

My question is, if the breaker breaks the rack, sinks all the balls except the black, (or even leaving the black on the table with a few other balls), and scratches......and all balls on table roll into the kitchen......what is the rule for the incoming player? can he/she ask for a re-rack? can any balls be spotted? etc etc
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't worry about those rules...why don't you start playing some real games like 9, 14.1 or one pocket? :D
 
Top Spin said:
Yup, all examples of bad rules...
Click to expand...
I would disagree.
You get BIH anywhere in the table except after the break.
Open table after the break no matter what is a better rule imo.
I can't stand playing " bar" rules 8-ball.
Well, I hate barbox 8-ball period. :D
It's an awful game with people who don't know the rules for the most part.
 
BAZARUS said:
I wouldn't worry about those rules...why don't you start playing some real games like 9, 14.1 or one pocket? :D
Click to expand...

Nine should not even be allowed to be used in the same sentance with 14.1 and one pocket.
 
Bar rules are just fine!

I should have never even responded to this thread to start with.

I either have to laugh or cry when I hear "I hate bar rules". or "Learn a REAL game". All I can say is, come on guys, it's pool. Bar rules are what they are (primarily) because of the table they are played on. You can't spot a ball without shoving in some more quarters. Sometimes that means we play a couple of 3 ball rounds between games, just to use up the quarters.

Sure, I prefer BCA 8 ball rules to "bar rules", but so what? You will get in more fights trying to enforce a BCA rule on a bar player than you ever will if you just learn and play by bar rules when in bars.

I would venture to say that the majority of people who play pool (in public) play in bars. When I was in Mexico last winter, I played in the bars. The rules were different, but it wasn't going to keep me from playing, I just adapted. Had a great time too, and made a lot of new friends. I'm glad I didn't rob myself of the experience because I didn't know the rules at first.

My local bar in Seattle has a lot of Mexicans. We play a lot of last pocket, but they have adapted to American "bar" rules otherwise. Same diff. We have a weekly tournament that uses a little of both. It's still a bar rule (scratches behind headstring), but you only have to call ball and pocket (slop counts).

All in all, bar pool is a friendly pool game. You are expected to play aggressive, but you can still play safeties, but you should be creative. 2-way shots are always better than straight-up safes. I don't have a problem calling all caroms, kisses, combo's, etc. If you know what you are shooting, it shouldn't be a problem. If you miss, well then, sit down.

For all the league players that call bar players "bangers", there are as many bar players that will call the league players "slop shooters". And I've seen good players in both camps.

-CM

What's even funnier, is that this thread started with a hypothetical question that just won't ever really come up. How many times have you witnessed the break that took all of one group off the table, scratched, and left the 8 ball behind the headstring?
 
highsea said:
I should have never even responded to this thread to start with.

I either have to laugh or cry when I hear "I hate bar rules". or "Learn a REAL game". All I can say is, come on guys, it's pool. Bar rules are what they are (primarily) because of the table they are played on. You can't spot a ball without shoving in some more quarters. Sometimes that means we play a couple of 3 ball rounds between games, just to use up the quarters.

Sure, I prefer BCA 8 ball rules to "bar rules", but so what? You will get in more fights trying to enforce a BCA rule on a bar player than you ever will if you just learn and play by bar rules when in bars.

I would venture to say that the majority of people who play pool (in public) play in bars. When I was in Mexico last winter, I played in the bars. The rules were different, but it wasn't going to keep me from playing, I just adapted. Had a great time too, and made a lot of new friends. I'm glad I didn't rob myself of the experience because I didn't know the rules at first.

My local bar in Seattle has a lot of Mexicans. We play a lot of last pocket, but they have adapted to American "bar" rules otherwise. Same diff. We have a weekly tournament that uses a little of both. It's still a bar rule (scratches behind headstring), but you only have to call ball and pocket (slop counts).

All in all, bar pool is a friendly pool game. You are expected to play aggressive, but you can still play safeties, but you should be creative. 2-way shots are always better than straight-up safes. I don't have a problem calling all caroms, kisses, combo's, etc. If you know what you are shooting, it shouldn't be a problem. If you miss, well then, sit down.

For all the league players that call bar players "bangers", there are as many bar players that will call the league players "slop shooters". And I've seen good players in both camps.

-CM

What's even funnier, is that this thread started with a hypothetical question that just won't ever really come up. How many times have you witnessed the break that took all of one group off the table, scratched, and left the 8 ball behind the headstring?
Click to expand...

Some good points, Highsea. I used to play a bit of bar pool myself and agree that adapting to the local rules avoids fights...its just too bad the average "Joe six pack" in the bar doesn't at least understand ball in hand.


As for you "Big Jon", I've read a number of your posts. You are most definitely a bang box player.
 
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