APA rules question

S

Steve - Detroit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have an APA rules question for the rules experts on here.

Player A is shooting at the 8-ball and, by accident, places his marker overhanging the rail. He misses the shot but contacts the marker with enough force to alter the 8-ball's normal path off the rail.

Player B says foul. Player A, by placing the marker where he did, illegally interfered with the 8-ball.

Player A says no foul, the marker is just a piece of equipment at that point and, in APA, its Q-ball fouls only.

It ended up being played out with no foul and Player B accepted the table as it lay.

So, which way should it have been called? Also, if Player A is correct, what if the 8-ball had been redirected into the pocket off his marker, would that have been a win for Player A?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
Foul as I understand it,but I have not read the rules in a quite while.I was a captian for many years and often I reminded players to pull there markers back for this very reason,just to avoid the situation,but my (half way educated opinion) is that its a foul.

Google will find the APA site and the rules are there...I'm "pretty sure" this is covered,but like I said,it's been a while since I read em.
 
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I saw a team lose their last match in a tournament after their player got called on this rule. Sad but true.
 
Player A is shooting at the 8-ball and, by accident, places his marker overhanging the rail.

All the info. I needed to read. Foul.
 
Steve - Detroit said:
I have an APA rules question for the rules experts on here.

Player A is shooting at the 8-ball and, by accident, places his marker overhanging the rail. He misses the shot but contacts the marker with enough force to alter the 8-ball's normal path off the rail.

Player B says foul. Player A, by placing the marker where he did, illegally interfered with the 8-ball.

Player A says no foul, the marker is just a piece of equipment at that point and, in APA, its Q-ball fouls only.

It ended up being played out with no foul and Player B accepted the table as it lay.

So, which way should it have been called? Also, if Player A is correct, what if the 8-ball had been redirected into the pocket off his marker, would that have been a win for Player A?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
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I haven't looked at the APA rules lately so I could be wrong on this but I don't think this would be a loss of game or a foul. Had the 8-ball gone in the marked pocket and touched the pocket marker, it would be loss of game by rule. Since the 8 ball didn't go in and the APA has the cue ball foul only rule, I don't think it's loss of game or foul. Have you looked up the latest APA 8-ball rules? I used to but they have so many rules and they change them so damn much that I quit studying the rules.
 
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This is all I found...

I looked at the manual and these two highlighted items were all I found that address the subject. Open to interpetation, I guess

10. THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS TO LOSE:
a. Your opponent pockets his numerical group and legally pockets
the 8-ball.
b. You pocket the 8-ball out-of-turn or knock it on the floor.
c. When playing the 8-ball, you pocket the 8-ball in the wrong pocket or
fail to properly mark the pocket where the 8-ball went in.
d. You foul the cue ball and then pocket the 8-ball.
e. When playing the 8-ball, you scratch. You lose whether or not you
pocket the 8-ball.
Note: If you are shooting at the 8-ball and miss it altogether, you have fouled
and your opponent has ball-in-hand, but you don?t lose because of this foul.
f. A game is forfeited if you alter the course of the 8-ball or the cue ball
in a game losing situation.
8-Ball Game Rules
51

Causing even the slightest movement or altering the course of the cue
ball, even accidentally, is a foul. Even dropping the chalk on the cue ball
is a foul. It is not a foul, however, to accidentally move any other balls
(including the 8-ball) unless, during his turn at the table, a player moves a
ball and it in turn comes in contact with the cue ball. Any balls moved
accidentally during a shot must be replaced by the opponent after the
shot is over and all balls have stopped rolling. If it occurs before the shot,
it must be replaced before the shot is taken.
8-BallGameRules
50

Dwight
 
blueridge said:
I haven't looked at the APA rules lately so I could be wrong on this but I don't think this would be a loss of game or a foul. Had the 8-ball gone in the marked pocket and touched the pocket marker, it would be loss of game by rule. Since the 8 ball didn't go in and the APA has the cue ball foul only rule, I don't think it's loss of game or foul. Have you looked up the latest APA 8-ball rules? I used to but they have so many rules and they change them so damn much that I quit studying the rules.
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The rule is that when shooting the 8-ball, if anything other than another ball comes into contact with the 8-ball or the cue ball, it's loss of game.
 
Steve - Detroit said:
I have an APA rules question for the rules experts on here.

Player A is shooting at the 8-ball and, by accident, places his marker overhanging the rail. He misses the shot but contacts the marker with enough force to alter the 8-ball's normal path off the rail.

Player B says foul. Player A, by placing the marker where he did, illegally interfered with the 8-ball.

Player A says no foul, the marker is just a piece of equipment at that point and, in APA, its Q-ball fouls only.

It ended up being played out with no foul and Player B accepted the table as it lay.

So, which way should it have been called? Also, if Player A is correct, what if the 8-ball had been redirected into the pocket off his marker, would that have been a win for Player A?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
Click to expand...


http://chicagoapa.com/common/pdf/tmanual.pdf

Here's the rule book. :D
 
This is a interesting scenario that I have thought about in the past. I am looking at the rule book now and I see this-

Under Section 3 Rule 10 it clearly says-

"A game is forfeited if you alter the course of the 8ball or the cue ball in a game losing situation."


I am guessing this rule is for someone who decides to stop the cue from scratching or the 8ball from going in the wrong pocket but I don't see why this shouldn't be applied to the marker altering the path of the 8ball. Other than that I see nothing about this rule, even under the 'How to Win' section (which talks about how to properly mark a pocket).
 
cycopath said:
Loss of game Foul? Or Ball In Hand Foul?
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Per the APA rule, if you can prove that the shooting player would have lost if the path of the 8-ball or cue-ball wasn't altered then it's a loss of game.

But like so many things in the APA Rule Book, it's very subjective and very open to "you and my knuckle" resolution.
 
I just called an APA referee and asked him the question. This is how the shot turns out.

It ended up being played out with no foul and Player B accepted the table as it lay.
It is a sportsmanship violation and players B should have said something about the marker. There was no foul committed.

Dwight
 
BigDogatLarge said:
I just called an APA referee and asked him the question. This is how the shot turns out.

It ended up being played out with no foul and Player B accepted the table as it lay.
It is a sportsmanship violation and players B should have said something about the marker. There was no foul committed.

Dwight
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Sportsmanship? IMO that isn't a sportsmanship violation unless the player intentionally places the marker in the path of the 8ball. Sometimes I wonder about APA refs. I saw many questionable calls at cities by refs and the LO was trying to recruit players to be refs so they had more. I am not saying this guy is wrong or that he is a bad ref I just wonder if that is correct since it sounds fishy.

My personal stance on this subject is if the pocket marker is at the back of the pocket and the ball touches it the 8ball would still have dropped. I would concede a win in that scenario.

If the pocket marker was on the rail and it looked as though the 8ball would be missed but glances off the marker and goes in that cannot be counted as a win and should be a loss.
 
there are far to many rules in 8 ball, it isnt pool anymore its "Who knows the rules better", A lawyers game.
 
Burtus said:
Is it Ok to ask other APA questions here?
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The title of the thread is APA rules question... I think you could probably ask another rules question to save yet another thread for a rules question. IMO

Dwight
 
Thanks BigDog

BigDogatLarge said:
The title of the thread is APA rules question... I think you could probably ask another rules question to save yet another thread for a rules question. IMO

Dwight
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Thanks BigDog but I took ANT's advice above and posted Another APA Rules question thread. I asked because of the title being non specific.
Burt
 
Burtus said:
Thanks BigDog but I took ANT's advice above and posted Another APA Rules question thread. I asked because of the title being non specific.
Burt
Click to expand...

That works as well...

Dwight
 
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