Are we all playing with the same leather (layered / solid) tip after 4-6 months?

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sbrownn

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Tried doing a search for this and didn't find anything.

Going to one of my old league spots to get some tip work. Usually I get G2, Kamikaze brown or similar layer tips installed. They are usually medium (old preference) and lately soft. I also request the installer do an inward taper on the new tips to help compensate for any mushrooming. This is a nice setup that I appreciate.

Given that context, we all know leather tips harden after a period of time. Given that this happens (usually in 3 to 6 months, maybe longer given conditions), do we all end up playing with the same hardness and characteristic tip if we keep them on for an average of twice the first half of the paying time (3 to 6 months = factory hardness to getting harder, 6 to 12 months = hardening to a consistent measurement no matter what the original factory hardness)?

Quality tip installers are a very, very rare thing here the last 5 years in the Seattle / King County and surrounding areas and we have a healthy pool scene. Yes, I could seek out a new tip every 4.5 months (on average) with a dedicated 40 or more minute drive.

I guess a decent amount of hardness measurements would have to be taken over time over multiple players, but was just thinking about it as I'm about to head out. Also, is another reason why I've went to soft because maybe I get a little more playing time before the hardness averages out, possibly...
 
Tips have a "shelf life" as for usage.

Some like to change them on New Year's Day. It use to be a tradition of mine and some like to play with them for 5+ years.

I now find that changing them every 2 to 3 years is fine.
 
I usually change them when the side thickness is somewhere around a nickel. With every impact the tip gets harder and harder. I doubt any leather tip will stay the same hardness from hit 1 to hit 1000 and beyond…
 
If its on one of my current playing cues that i use a lot, it will get changed when it wears down (5-6 months). If its on a shaft that has been put up then 3 years is the max for me.
 
sbrownn said:
Tried doing a search for this and didn't find anything.

Going to one of my old league spots to get some tip work. Usually I get G2, Kamikaze brown or similar layer tips installed. They are usually medium (old preference) and lately soft. I also request the installer do an inward taper on the new tips to help compensate for any mushrooming. This is a nice setup that I appreciate.

Given that context, we all know leather tips harden after a period of time. Given that this happens (usually in 3 to 6 months, maybe longer given conditions), do we all end up playing with the same hardness and characteristic tip if we keep them on for an average of twice the first half of the paying time (3 to 6 months = factory hardness to getting harder, 6 to 12 months = hardening to a consistent measurement no matter what the original factory hardness)?

Quality tip installers are a very, very rare thing here the last 5 years in the Seattle / King County and surrounding areas and we have a healthy pool scene. Yes, I could seek out a new tip every 4.5 months (on average) with a dedicated 40 or more minute drive.

I guess a decent amount of hardness measurements would have to be taken over time over multiple players, but was just thinking about it as I'm about to head out. Also, is another reason why I've went to soft because maybe I get a little more playing time before the hardness averages out, possibly...
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Carbon Fiber was a big change in billiard equipment, I wondered when someone would make a BCA legal tip that is not made of leather, Bulletproof cue tips did just that with their Recoil tip, I have been using these tips for the last 3 months and I have no plans of changing to another tip, natural products like wood and leather have one inherent flaw if you are trying to build a consistent product, you will never find trees or animal skin that have exactly the same grain or skin density, layered tips helped but the glue that bonds the leather glazes and the leather gets harder over time being exposed to air, the Bulletproof Recoil tip is made of a man made resin they claim does not change over time, so far I find this to be true, they also claim their tips hold chalk better than a leather tip, I also find this to be true, I'm using TAOM V 10 chalk, I find I only need to chalk about every 5 shots or so, I shaped the tip with a Willard dime radius shaper 1 time, it still has perfect shape with ZERO mushrooming, I am using their hard (green) tip, I don't have any experience with their Med or Soft tips, if you have never heard of them or thought about trying one give them a shot, if you are like me the worst thing that could happen is you don't like them, you cut it off and continue your search for your perfect tip, I have tried Kamui Athlete, Tiger Black Onyx, TAOM Fusion, Becue Medium and Hard and some I don't remember, I now have the Bulletproof Recoil on both of my shafts.
 
I have 4 shafts that I rotate.
All 4 are identical in length of taper and are 12.25.
All have hard pressed Triangles and I do like a hard hit.
I change them all out about every 4 years.
 
Yes, all cues with Kamui Athlete tips are hard tips after six months because the soft top layer will have worn down exposing the hard layer.



Kamui athlete half hard.jpg
 
I also have started using the bulletproof recoil tips (Green & Blue) And I like that they hold shape & chalk perfectly. I do think I will try the red - medium in 35 years when this one wears out lol
 
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I lay mostly with hard layered tips but have shafts with Triangles which I still like. I only change when the edges get to dime thickness. I haven’t had any tips that I replaced because of age. In the past year or so, I’ve started playing with a cue that had been sitting in a case for years. It has a Triangle tip that was installed 28 years ago. It plays great.
 
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I play with Triangles, always have. I shoot from 4 to 10 hours per week (actual playing/practice time). I play 8-ball most of the time, and I break with my playing cue. I've replaced two tips in the past 12 years, and one of those was due to a cracked ferule that needed replacement. After the initial break-in my tips only require minimal maintenance - slightly roughening the surface with a pick maybe 3 or 4 times a year and almost never needing reshaping or trimming a mushroom.

I get plenty of spin, draw, etc when needed using Master chalk, and my miscue rate is lower than most of the people I play with even though they are using Taom. Most of them are using layered tips which they seem to be constantly changing whether or not they look worn down. Most also are using CF shafts, and none would ever think of breaking with their playing cue.

I've shot with some of their cues on various occasions and I haven't found anything superior about them. I really believe people buy into new products or technologies without objectively testing them, and for the large majority of recreational players any improvement they see is either psychological or imagined.
 
ChrisSjoblom said:
I play with Triangles, always have. I shoot from 4 to 10 hours per week (actual playing/practice time). I play 8-ball most of the time, and I break with my playing cue. I've replaced two tips in the past 12 years, and one of those was due to a cracked ferule that needed replacement. After the initial break-in my tips only require minimal maintenance - slightly roughening the surface with a pick maybe 3 or 4 times a year and almost never needing reshaping or trimming a mushroom.

I get plenty of spin, draw, etc when needed using Master chalk, and my miscue rate is lower than most of the people I play with even though they are using Taom. Most of them are using layered tips which they seem to be constantly changing whether or not they look worn down. Most also are using CF shafts, and none would ever think of breaking with their playing cue.

I've shot with some of their cues on various occasions and I haven't found anything superior about them. I really believe people buy into new products or technologies without objectively testing them, and for the large majority of recreational players any improvement they see is either psychological or imagined.
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I also mainly play with Old Triangles. The new ones tend to be very hard and inconsistent. If you find any twenty years old buy them as the new ones are not the same. I have about a dozen left and refuse to put them on for anyone but me, as I cant find them any longer. I have never found a layered tip as good as the Triangle. But the two layered tips that came the closest are the Cue Smith Medium White Pearl tip with a light press in eh vise before installing and the Tiger Sniper tip. The new Elk Master tips are harder than those of old so they are getting close to the old Triangle, but not the same.
 
Coming up on four months with my Mike Wooldridge SuperTip and it's been fantastic so far. I play in a weekly pub league and If I can make it to six months, I'll be happy. Might have it replaced with another one or try a new tip out. Haven't decided yet.
 
4 months in when it hits the sweet spot of a tip i feel and the very best feel it can have
i dont change until it begins to miscue from being closer to the ferrule
 
sbrownn said:
Given that context, we all know leather tips harden after a period of time. Given that this happens (usually in 3 to 6 months, maybe longer given conditions), do we all end up playing with the same hardness and characteristic tip if we keep them on for an average of twice the first half of the paying time (3 to 6 months = factory hardness to getting harder, 6 to 12 months = hardening to a consistent measurement no matter what the original factory hardness)?
Click to expand...
Ok, before I address the above. The consistent fool that claimed tips have a shelf life, is ridiculously out of touch yet again.

Now to the topic at hand, and without math in the mix. Yes, in theory we will eventually be playing with extremely similar hard tips. If we keep them on for whatever amount time vs use is necessary. Tips compress with play. That compression results in increased hardness. That progression slows as the tip increases in hardness. So, a soft tip will eventually become a medium and both it and a tip rated at medium, will creep toward being hard. As a side note. This process of compression is the real reason tips "wear out" (aka: get smaller in size), and not the supposed removal of material during the chalking process.
 
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The softer the tip, the more shaping is required, which shortens it's lifespan as you're removing material. The less material there is the harder it'll feel, regardless if that's whats actually happening to the tip, hardening that is versus staying soft.

I only used Tiger medium tips Everest and Sniper which lasted me about a year. I bought a Viking Siege which came with a Kamui Soft, it was fine but I wanted to experiment with a really cheap tip, Elk Master. Very soft and I was having to fiddle with it constantly so it only made it about 3 months before I was looking to swap it out. Bought UltraSkin Med black and fire tips. The Black is all I've installed so far, but it works well and I'm back to shaping a couple of times a week. I expect to get a year out of each of these with my rate of play.
 
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