Banking 102

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AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm looking for some banking help. Suppose you have the following bank on the 8ball...

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Suppose point A is the point on the rail the 8ball has to hit such that you get the true geometrical "angle-in equals angle-out" outcome. However, you know from experience that if the CB is at that specific location and you hit the CB with center-ball (no sidespin), the CB will induce some right (counter-clockwise) sidespin on the OB, such that it would bank short. So the question is...

Would you aim for the point on the rail closer to point B to compensate for any contact-induced spin?

OR

Would you aim for the true banking angle at point A and hit the CB with some right sidespin to cancel out any contact-induced spin, such that the CB will rebound off the rail with no spin (or ideally with some natural running english) at point A?

Also, what speed would you hit the bank, and would you put any top or bottom spin on the CB (just forget about scratching). Basically, what goes through your mind when approached with this bank shot? Thanks in advance.
 
since both ball line up on the diamond, that means point a should throw the ball right in the pocket, using stroke speed centerball or slightly above centerball. Draw would make it come up short. Since the ball isnt on the rail i wouldnt worry about the sidespin on the object ball, id pay more attention to hitting the ball where i mean to hit it with the right speed.
 
I think the higher-percentage way to pocket it is with a firm stroke and center-ball, and more cut angle to compensate for the ball stiffening off the rail. Shooting this way, you can vary the cut angle fairly widely without changing the bank angle all that much, meaning once you've got a good feel for the rails, you have a very large margin of error. Trying to make the angle work out right with english and a softer stroke still requires a good feel for the rail, but it affords a lot less margin for error. It becomes a touchy kind of shot.

But also, rarely are you banking a ball with no regard for CB position. What the cue ball needs to do after the shot will often dictate how you choose to shoot it.

-Andrew
EDIT: after looking at the diagram again, I'd change "center ball" to "a touch of center high english" to avoid the scratch in the upper right corner.
 
Andrew Manning said:
I think the higher-percentage way to pocket it is with a firm stroke and center-ball, and more cut angle to compensate for the ball stiffening off the rail. Shooting this way, you can vary the cut angle fairly widely without changing the bank angle all that much, meaning once you've got a good feel for the rails, you have a very large margin of error. Trying to make the angle work out right with english and a softer stroke still requires a good feel for the rail, but it affords a lot less margin for error. It becomes a touchy kind of shot.

But also, rarely are you banking a ball with no regard for CB position. What the cue ball needs to do after the shot will often dictate how you choose to shoot it.

-Andrew
EDIT: after looking at the diagram again, I'd change "center ball" to "a touch of center high english" to avoid the scratch in the upper right corner.
Click to expand...
Andrew, good post. I pretty much agree with what you said.

I was just wondering if any of the experienced bank players or one pocket players out there would opt to compensate by putting english on the CB instead of the center-ball higher cut angle approach, especially if the cut angle was more severe (CB closer to the end rail).
 
Wow, this is the beginning of a great thread!

Honestly, there are so many factors involved in banking (speed, spin, rails, cloth), your instincts are best. If you have a gut-feeling on where to hit the ball (and you frequently do), go with it. You will be right far more often than any system out there.

That's my feeling on it, at least. Shot-making is a personal journey and I feel one can only take it to the next level when they embrace this simple fact; trust yourself.
 
Andrew Manning said:
But also, rarely are you banking a ball with no regard for CB position. What the cue ball needs to do after the shot will often dictate how you choose to shoot it.
Click to expand...

In general this is how I decide what style of bank shot to shoot. In situations like the specific example I would use a bit of right side to compensate for the shortness, and hit it a bit more than pocket weight. If this were 9 ball I'd hit a bit harder as I find that this shot will often go 2 rails if it comes up a bit short on the first. This is a bad thing to do in 8 ball however ;) .

I feel it is important to have control over all three aspects of banking : angle, spin, and speed. This allows you to move whitey around as you need, and allows you to make some banks that would double-kiss under some conditions.

Dave
 
As my one pocket education continues(and my pocket gets lighter) I'm learning more and more about banking. Like my friend there in Sasquatchewan says speed, spin and angle are all equally important. Both Speed and spin can change the angle out on a bank.

For instance inside spin on the CB will tigten up the angle out on the OB while outside spin on the OB will widen the angle out. a slower shot tends to be wider while a faster shot tightens up.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Honestly, there are so many factors involved in banking (speed, spin, rails, cloth), your instincts are best. If you have a gut-feeling on where to hit the ball (and you frequently do), go with it. You will be right far more often than any system out there.
That's my feeling on it, at least. Shot-making is a personal journey and I feel one can only take it to the next level when they embrace this simple fact; trust yourself.
Click to expand...

Words of wisdom, Jude.

I couldn't agree more. Don't over-think a shot. The bank you layed out can be made with all of the options you listed, and more. Top, bottom, soft, hard, inside or outside, etc. Not to mention that all tables bank differently.

Ray Martin used to recommend that you learn the bank with no english, get so you don't miss it; then start with outside, then inside, etc. Then extremes, like super-slow-roll-just-enough-speed-to-fall-over-the-rim; then very hard taking whitey 3+ rails. That's all about cb control, but first you must learn the shot.

So my final answer is.....shoot the shot. Repeat. Ditto. Again. And some more. Not done yet. Bored with that shot? Then do it some more. Repeat...

-von
 
Banking by the beard

This book is awesome and is the best book on banking I've ever seen.

Written by AZ'er Freddy B


AL
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Wow, this is the beginning of a great thread!

Honestly, there are so many factors involved in banking (speed, spin, rails, cloth), your instincts are best. If you have a gut-feeling on where to hit the ball (and you frequently do), go with it. You will be right far more often than any system out there.

That's my feeling on it, at least. Shot-making is a personal journey and I feel one can only take it to the next level when they embrace this simple fact; trust yourself.
Click to expand...
That's my system for this bank shot. That said, I'm pretty sure that my instincts would tell me to hit medium firm with a bit of right. Not because that's necessary to make the shot, but just because that's how I'm use to playing it.

Cory
 
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