best hand positions to ensure maintaining level cue during stroke- ?

E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just curious..trying to picture this in my mind and am not quite getting it
using pendulum stroke.

also, is it natural to shift hand positions a little, depending on the shot?
 
evergruven said:
just curious..trying to picture this in my mind and am not quite getting it
using pendulum stroke.
Click to expand...
With a pendulum stroke (fixed elbow) you can have a level-moving tip for a few inches before and after hitting the CB if your forearm is perpendicular to the cue at address (tip near CB).

If you want your cue to be level throughout the stroke then you need a "piston" stroke (elbow moving up and down), which is harder to control and unnecessary for an effective stroke.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
With a pendulum stroke (fixed elbow) you can have a level-moving tip for a few inches before and after hitting the CB if your forearm is perpendicular to the cue at address (tip near CB).

If you want your cue to be level throughout the stroke then you need a "piston" stroke (elbow moving up and down), which is harder to control and unnecessary for an effective stroke.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, watch Barry Starks instructional videos.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
With a pendulum stroke (fixed elbow) you can have a level-moving tip for a few inches before and after hitting the CB if your forearm is perpendicular to the cue at address (tip near CB).

If you want your cue to be level throughout the stroke then you need a "piston" stroke (elbow moving up and down), which is harder to control and unnecessary for an effective stroke.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
I never really got that 'piston' stroke idea because it's not necessary to move your elbow up (except for a teeny bit which is natural). I'm pretty sure it's detrimental to do that upward motion thing. You can keep it fixed and then drop it in the forward stroke to accomplish a level cue.

As for evergruven's question --- yes, it's natural for your hand to roll back a little during that type of stroke, othewise you'll wind up with a forward type wrist cock.
 
FranCrimi said:
I never really got that 'piston' stroke idea because it's not necessary to move your elbow up (except for a teeny bit which is natural). I'm pretty sure it's detrimental to do that upward motion thing. You can keep it fixed and then drop it in the forward stroke to accomplish a level cue.
Click to expand...
The "plain vanilla" piston stroke I'm familiar with the elbow doesn't go up above its original position (at address), but drops with the backstroke, then rises with the forward stroke (to its original position), and then (optionally) drops again with follow through on the shot stroke - all to keep the grip hand moving straight horizontally.

Disclaimer: I don't use a piston stroke - I'm only talking about its theoretical mechanics.

pj
chgo

piston stroke.jpg
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
The "plain vanilla" piston stroke I'm familiar with the elbow doesn't go up above its original position (at address), but drops with the backstroke, then rises with the forward stroke (to its original position), and then (optionally) drops again with follow through on the shot stroke - all to keep the grip hand moving straight horizontally.

Disclaimer: I don't use a piston stroke - I'm only talking about of its theoretical mechanics.

pj
chgo

View attachment 703531
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Ahhh, I see. Well then I think that description would suit the continuous loop stroke where there's no pause because there's no change in direction. Isn't that what an actual piston does?
 
i think this assumes your forearm is perpendicular i always thought to the floor PJ emphasized to the cue at address and contact
so that is "the best "hand/grip position
also my understanding and i am not an instructor is the admonition of "keep the cue level" is more directed to before and thru contact
 
i now see you were interested in the piston stroke so disregard my posts above
i will delete them if you want
 
FranCrimi said:
Ahhh, I see. Well then I think that description would suit the continuous loop stroke where there's no pause because there's no change in direction. Isn't that what an actual piston does?
Click to expand...
Yes, but to be clear...
The piston itself goes straight and changes direction - (approximately) like the pool player's tip.
The piston's connecting rod goes in a loop - like the pool player's hand.

pj
chgo

x.png
 
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bbb said:
i think this assumes your forearm is perpendicular i always thought to the floor PJ emphasized to the cue at address and contact
so that is "the best "hand/grip position
also my understanding and i am not an instructor is the admonition of "keep the cue level" is more directed to before and thru contact
Click to expand...
At address, yes, perpendicular to the cue. However, with an elbow drop stroke, players will usually experience an acute angle at impact, due to the shoulder engaging in the stroke.
 
FranCrimi said:
Yes, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking of the rod that drives the piston.
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And, to be really accurate, the cue tip doesn't really move in a straight line like an actual piston - it actually duplicates the back hand's loop motion, reversed and on a smaller scale. This is why it's not as widely recommended as the pendulum stroke.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
And, to be really accurate, the cue tip doesn't really move in a straight line like an actual piston - it actually duplicates the back hand's loop motion, reversed and on a smaller scale. This is why it's not as widely recommended as the pendulum stroke.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
But the Filipino players have an amazing way of straightening that all out at impact. :)
 
evergruven said:
just curious..trying to picture this in my mind and am not quite getting it
using pendulum stroke.

also, is it natural to shift hand positions a little, depending on the shot?
Click to expand...
The diagrams offered are excellent, but start with a level cue at address. How many pros have a level cue at address? Some have a degree of elevation.

Obviously, a rail interferes with a level cue at address for most shots and forces the butt of the cue to be raised above the tip at address. The forward stroke should feel like there is downward pressure on the cue stick--as the cue approaches the cue ball--and many fine players add a little something to a true pendulum movement near impact, to help the stick to be as level as possible through impact.

Put differently, a pendulum motion but one with a bit of straight motion at its bottom, more of a \_/ if you follow me, with the _ just to either side of impact with the cue ball.

I would recommend a player experimenting with the different stroke styles (pendulum, J, piston, loop) as well as ulnar or radial deviation at the wrist (preset or during the stroke) to help get a feel for the movement.
 
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