Birch dowel for a core - turns like crap..?

T

tg_vegas

Well-known member
I've been using maple for full-core butts for a while now. Yesterday I needed a dowel for a full core and couldnt get one quickly but the local Rocklers store had 1" dried birch dowels in stock. I looked at density and discovered to my surprise that the birch is about the same hardness as maple but even a little bit lighter. Given that I'm doing an Ebony/Cocobolo butt right now that is really heavy, I thought the lower density might be a bonus so I went for it.

Wow, turning the 36" dowel between centers, I'll be damned if I can get a clean turn. This stuff is anything but easy to turn and get a respectable finish. The surface is rough and almost looks torn out.

The interesting part is that this same dowel responds beautifully to a router. I was able to get to dimension with numerous router passes and then sandpaper. For whatever reason, this wood doesn't seem to like a lathe tool.

Anyone else have this experience or advice on what I might be doing wrong here?
 
Thats because it was torn out.
Need a tool that will rub the bevel if it tears on a lathe type of cut. You are getting a slicing cut with a router due to the rotation of the dowel, even though it appears to be cutting straight across.
Most knowledgeable wood turners will cut with some form of high speed steel gouge and will always strive to rub the bevel for a clean cut. Not really practical for your needs I guess and needs constant sharpening. Sure, there are woodturners that use carbide cutters for woodturning, but other than a few specialized tools, carbide leads to inferior results compared to HSS, and used mainly by hobbyists who lack the knowledge or tools to correctly sharpen.
You actually might be able to somewhat accomplish it for your uses with one of those carbide cutters angled to the left apx 30 to 45 degrees and tilted counterclockwise 30 degrees or so. You would have to set it so that the down bevel on the cutter actually rubbed the wood as it cut, and it would have to be sharp to where it was actually slicing the wood. The cut would be limited to a fine shaving. A HSS bit would cut smoother but say on an 18" dowel would need to be sharpened every 3-4 passes.
When I said woodturners, I was referring to turning on a wood lathe, and not a function as done on a cnc or cue building lathe. They are two separate animals, but the principles of a clean cut remain the same. I was just trying to explain why you were getting the results you were getting.
 
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I'm using carbide on a 36" dowel. I've tried 5 different tools at various positions. BR, AR, E, 1/4", 1/2" ,all with poor results. One pass with a six-blade router bit and it cleaned up all the mess.
 
It's safe to say that I'm glad I only needed one dowel! I managed to get it all turned but what a pain in the ass! 30" stepped core took me 1-1/2 hours to get to dimensions and threaded.
 
If it was yellow birch, that would be the toughest wood I have ever turned in my woodturning. Very porous, and almost impossible to get a smooth finish. Menards by me has stock maple and poplar dowls for cheap.
 
It turned fine with the router, just sucked with the cutting tools. Once I got to dimension and hit it with some sandpaper, it got smooth just fine. End result was what I needed for a stepped core but getting there took way too much time. I should have just found another store where I could get some regular maple dowels. I just ran out and grabbed what I could get quickly.
 
I don't feel birch is a suitable wood for cores. If you want something you can turn round and will not move and use quickly and is on the lighter side have a look at hickory. You can get dry 5/4 boards most any hardwood store and it's not expensive. My experience with it is that unlike a lot of woods that seem to hold tension internally hickory due to it's grain pattern seems to be dead straight and stay that way. You can tell when you saw it into squares there is no movement on the kerf as you progress along the board. Then when you turn it round it stays dead straight forever more. Maybe I was just lucky with the boards I bought but I love it for light weight cores. The porous nature of the grain makes it hold glue very well for cores as well. It will look a bit torn out when turned but not deeply. A quick pass with 220 grit sand paper and it's ready to go.

Edit: Never ever choose something as important as the core of your cues due to convenience.
 
Good advice, thanks. I'll look at Hickory in the future. I didn't have any problems with movement on the Birch but for reasons already stated, I won't try it again.
 
tg_vegas said:
Good advice, thanks. I'll look at Hickory in the future. I didn't have any problems with movement on the Birch but for reasons already stated, I won't try it again.
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I've been wondering about using bass wood, if you needed a really light core to balance out heavier woods. I know it's soft and light, so would it make the hit like butter or mush? Curious if any one has tried it yet and did it work out?
 
Someone else recently suggested Balsa wood. Not sure that is a great solution.

Similar to core materials, I'm looking into the best solution to fill CF shafts. I've heard about people using cotton balls, styrofoam packing materials, Great Stuff expanding foam, and other Home Depot solutions. Is there a better solution out there?
 
tg_vegas said:
Someone else recently suggested Balsa wood. Not sure that is a great solution.

Similar to core materials, I'm looking into the best solution to fill CF shafts. I've heard about people using cotton balls, styrofoam packing materials, Great Stuff expanding foam, and other Home Depot solutions. Is there a better solution out there?
Click to expand...
I haven't worked with CF besides changing a tip. I have worked with great stuff foam and I would think if you used the blue can made for doors and windows it would be better because it doesn't expand as forcibly.
 
tg_vegas said:
I've been using maple for full-core butts for a while now. Yesterday I needed a dowel for a full core and couldnt get one quickly but the local Rocklers store had 1" dried birch dowels in stock. I looked at density and discovered to my surprise that the birch is about the same hardness as maple but even a little bit lighter. Given that I'm doing an Ebony/Cocobolo butt right now that is really heavy, I thought the lower density might be a bonus so I went for it.

Wow, turning the 36" dowel between centers, I'll be damned if I can get a clean turn. This stuff is anything but easy to turn and get a respectable finish. The surface is rough and almost looks torn out.

The interesting part is that this same dowel responds beautifully to a router. I was able to get to dimension with numerous router passes and then sandpaper. For whatever reason, this wood doesn't seem to like a lathe tool.

Anyone else have this experience or advice on what I might be doing wrong here?
Click to expand...
Using a router is the right way to go turning dowells. Less stress and very consistent. Speed and feed rate takes a bit to get down but once you get it. Your good to go. Some like the wing cutters, I always wondered how consistent they really are. My personal choice is the 3 flute router bits. They last me longer and I can adjust the router height to get more use out of them.
 
tg_vegas said:
Someone else recently suggested Balsa wood. Not sure that is a great solution.

Similar to core materials, I'm looking into the best solution to fill CF shafts. I've heard about people using cotton balls, styrofoam packing materials, Great Stuff expanding foam, and other Home Depot solutions. Is there a better solution out there?
Click to expand...
Depends on what your after with a carbon. Everything works fine as the shaft by itself is extremely durable its just you'll have ping sound and the shaft is light. Heavy 2 part foam helped me a lot in what I was wanting to achieve.

I use 2 different products to achieve the weight and avoid the ping in mine
 
Michael Webb said:
Using a router is the right way to go turning dowells. Less stress and very consistent. Speed and feed rate takes a bit to get down but once you get it. Your good to go. Some like the wing cutters, I always wondered how consistent they really are. My personal choice is the 3 flute router bits. They last me longer and I can adjust the router height to get more use out of them.
Click to expand...
I use 3 wing cutters and they seem more consistent than 6 wing I have tried. There seems to be about equal contact with them. I can adjust my router in and out to get to a new sharp spot on the 1/4 inch ones about 5 times before it's time to change it out. This is about every 6 months to a year depending on the wood I have to cut. At 6 bucks each economy isn't an issue.

I used to use a router but now have an air cooled spindle and it's worth the setup time at about 1/10th the noise level. Would never go back to a router.
 
Well, I'm stuck with routers for now. I have four for various functions after not using even one for years. I've recently tried the 6-wing cutters and find that the 3-blade verticals give a nicer cut for a fraction of the price. Just my experience, YMMV
 
tg_vegas said:
Well, I'm stuck with routers for now. I have four for various functions after not using even one for years. I've recently tried the 6-wing cutters and find that the 3-blade verticals give a nicer cut for a fraction of the price. Just my experience, YMMV
Click to expand...
I use a Router for all my turnings.
No complaints here.
 
Coos Cues said:
I don't feel birch is a suitable wood for cores. If you want something you can turn round and will not move and use quickly and is on the lighter side have a look at hickory. You can get dry 5/4 boards most any hardwood store and it's not expensive. My experience with it is that unlike a lot of woods that seem to hold tension internally hickory due to it's grain pattern seems to be dead straight and stay that way. You can tell when you saw it into squares there is no movement on the kerf as you progress along the board. Then when you turn it round it stays dead straight forever more. Maybe I was just lucky with the boards I bought but I love it for light weight cores. The porous nature of the grain makes it hold glue very well for cores as well. It will look a bit torn out when turned but not deeply. A quick pass with 220 grit sand paper and it's ready to go.

Edit: Never ever choose something as important as the core of your cues due to convenience.
Click to expand...
John, have you had any experience using Ash as a core wood?
 
I have a piece of gaboon hanging in the shop now with a 3/4" ash core, no movement at all, still an ongoing experiment though ;)
 
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