can someone explain Joss cues. some are expensive, some aren't. the letter styles?

[trinacria]

sry if this has been asked before, but i was browsing through cues on ebay, and joss cues differ in price dramatically, from $200 to $2000.

I had a Joss sneaky I got off seyberts a while back on their specials list. $100. it played horrible, I sold it for the same price. got lucky there. My friend had one, old it looked, with gold Joss letters, but not like that one they have now, different. played decent but not great. it was old and beat up, he got it cheap too bc his own cue got stolen. Anyway, there's folk who want to be buried with their joss, as one member has in his signature, but I try their cues and they are not good at all. at least to me. is it a case of runde era schon type thing? bc schon still are excellent cues, most cues out of wisconsin are good now that i thing about it. must be the wood. anyway, is that the case with Joss? what's the deal. ive still to try the old 80s joss. sure those would be great, as most old cues are. I have a 40 year old cue that plays incredible, the feedback is perfect. is it the wood, the maker, or what. Ive always wondered but never asked.

 

[KAP1976]

I've had two Joss cues, and I'm sure a few of these dudes could give you more detailed feedback than I. One I sold because I didn't like the way it looked (1993 TCOM cue that had orange and not red veneers) and I also had a shot at a Scruggs. The second one I bought last year when I started playing again and am now alternating with the Jacoby I picked up at SBX last month. May I ask what you don't like about how the Joss plays? Not trying to start an argument but I'm just looking for more about what you don't like. I had a similar experience with a Samara Bar Cue that I bought and... I just didn't like the hit. Hey, it happens. Personally, I like the way their cues hit and I think the Joss Handmade line is a well-crafted stick as well. I'm also a traditionalist so I like a cue with a stainless steel joint, so Joss and Schon will always make a cue that is appealing to my eye.

 

[pt109]

I own a '68 Joss, a '86 plain-jane, and a '92 sneaky pete....
....gotta a line of buyers, won't sell.
I also have a Schon and a Richard Black....
...Richard says his cues hit hard, like a Joss....so does Schon.

So you either like that hit or you don't.

 

[LAlouie]

sry if this has been asked before, but i was browsing through cues on ebay, and joss cues differ in price dramatically, from $200 to $2000.

I had a Joss sneaky I got off seyberts a while back on their specials list. $100. it played horrible, I sold it for the same price. got lucky there. My friend had one, old it looked, with gold Joss letters, but not like that one they have now, different. played decent but not great. it was old and beat up, he got it cheap too bc his own cue got stolen. Anyway, there's folk who want to be buried with their joss, as one member has in his signature, but I try their cues and they are not good at all. at least to me. is it a case of runde era schon type thing? bc schon still are excellent cues, most cues out of wisconsin are good now that i thing about it. must be the wood. anyway, is that the case with Joss? what's the deal. ive still to try the old 80s joss. sure those would be great, as most old cues are. I have a 40 year old cue that plays incredible, the feedback is perfect. is it the wood, the maker, or what. Ive always wondered but never asked.

Sellers are going to try and get as much out of their sale as possible, so some sell high. Joss is a very mediocre cue. Are you thinking of "Joss West"? It's higher end.

 

[brian v]

I own a '68 Joss, a '86 plain-jane, and a '92 sneaky pete....
....gotta a line of buyers, won't sell.
I also have a Schon and a Richard Black....
...Richard says his cues hit hard, like a Joss....so does Schon.

So you either like that hit or you don't.

Do I Dare ? Ahh what the heck .

The first ever strike with the (Joss unsigned )and dented by( Paul Nwman ). but I pushed and it felt great as I dropped the 8 ..now as for this price disrepency you are seeing is some people place a value on they're property that gives them a chance to atleast break even . And some are rare pieces of art that is painstakenly crafted by great cue makers .. some are even commisioned from a personnel relationship with the makers and some others were pieced together with parts ..
:wink:

I really like mine .. 1985 and 1986 are good years for Joss

 

[Cracktherack]

The $650 Joss cue I bought in 93 was pure junk. Within 3 months the butt warped about 1/2". I returned it to Joss and Danny Janes told me there was no warranty on a warped cue. He says he guarantees the quality of workmanship and materials in his cues, but he doesn't, so that makes him a liar.
Joss cues hit better than similar quality cues, such as Cuetec and the China made Dufferin.

 

[ron3]

Joss cues don,t play well, (maybe it's the Indian rather than the arrow!).

 

[Grantstew]

I had two 1980s Joss cues, N10 and N11, they both played quite nicely, sold one to a friend and he absolutely loves it. I just hate the crappy looking CNC points. I have never hit with an early 70s Joss cue, but I believe they are much more akin to a good custom cue.

I have a sharp point TCOM cue that arrived recently, but I was not intending to play it, just to sell it. Might have a hit to comapre.

 

[philly]

Gotta say that everyone has their own opinion. I have an entry level Joss that I purchased about a year and a half ago when I got back into the game and I love it. I tried an OB LD shaft and just couldn't get used to the taper so I ordered an extra shaft for my Joss. My stick has a softer hit which is what I like and Joss has a pro taper which just feels right to me. To each his own but I really do believe it's the indian not the arrow. Find a stick and get used to it.

 

[ideologist]

sry if this has been asked before, but i was browsing through cues on ebay, and joss cues differ in price dramatically, from $200 to $2000.

I had a Joss sneaky I got off seyberts a while back on their specials list. $100. it played horrible, I sold it for the same price. got lucky there. My friend had one, old it looked, with gold Joss letters, but not like that one they have now, different. played decent but not great. it was old and beat up, he got it cheap too bc his own cue got stolen. Anyway, there's folk who want to be buried with their joss, as one member has in his signature, but I try their cues and they are not good at all. at least to me. is it a case of runde era schon type thing? bc schon still are excellent cues, most cues out of wisconsin are good now that i thing about it. must be the wood. anyway, is that the case with Joss? what's the deal. ive still to try the old 80s joss. sure those would be great, as most old cues are. I have a 40 year old cue that plays incredible, the feedback is perfect. is it the wood, the maker, or what. Ive always wondered but never asked.

I have a 1968 Joss that plays very strong.

As volume went higher and higher, quality reduced accordingly. That's why the new cues are not heralded like the older ones are.

 

[trinacria]

I've had two Joss cues, and I'm sure a few of these dudes could give you more detailed feedback than I. One I sold because I didn't like the way it looked (1993 TCOM cue that had orange and not red veneers) and I also had a shot at a Scruggs. The second one I bought last year when I started playing again and am now alternating with the Jacoby I picked up at SBX last month. May I ask what you don't like about how the Joss plays? Not trying to start an argument but I'm just looking for more about what you don't like. I had a similar experience with a Samara Bar Cue that I bought and... I just didn't like the hit. Hey, it happens. Personally, I like the way their cues hit and I think the Joss Handmade line is a well-crafted stick as well. I'm also a traditionalist so I like a cue with a stainless steel joint, so Joss and Schon will always make a cue that is appealing to my eye.

the feedback felt like glass breaking and the shaft was really inconstant. could not figure out the deflection. I tried shooting the same shot over and over and got different results every time. hated it. I had no idea the cues went back as far as the 60s. Jacoby cues on the other hand are great, and they are considered production cues.

 

[KAP1976]

I'm with you on the deflection on the shaft. The ball does seem to "squirt" on long shots when I use draw. That said, I'm an average player at best so I sometimes wonder if its me and not the cue. I love my new Jacoby, but the rigidity (that's a word, right?) of the Edge Hybrid shaft is taking some getting used to because of the previous cue's shaft.

 

[jb1911]

I have a recently made Joss cue that was my #1 until I got a Mezz. I still use and love the Joss and shoot equally well with both but I like the feel and hit of the Mezz better. Of course the Mezz cost twice as much, but it's not twice as good.

 

[ron3]

Pick a decent cue get use to it, It's the Indian not the arrow.

 

[wreiman]

I have heard that some of the cheaper internet lines are now made oversea's......

 

[WildWing]

Actually the value question is pretty easy to answer. When Joss was a combination of Janes, Stroud (early), and Scruggs from the late 60s to the late 70s, the Joss brand is pretty valuable. When they went to mass production, then there's less value, and very little collector value. It's the time period of production that matters.

 

[Dr_CollieCue]

Pick a decent cue get use to it, It's the Indian not the arrow.

This is the right answer.

I like my Joss cue a lot (I bought it a couple of months ago). It plays very well, has a nice, firm hit, and feels lively. It is very consistent from hit to hit and I don't feel any dead spots, looseness, vibrations, etc. Like Schon, Joss cues have a reputation for a uniform hit from cue to cue. To me, a good, solid hit and consistency are all you can ask for. You may or may not prefer the balance or other characteristics of another cue.

On the OP's question regarding pricing, as some noted there are different eras that may result in different values and of course some cues are more elaborate than others, have additional cost materials, and have taken more time to make.

 

[jb1911]

Pick a decent cue get use to it, It's the Indian not the arrow.

I mostly agree with this, but I gotta say that if you have no faith in your equipment it is a detriment to top play. Just like if you don't trust your putter in golf. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Menelaus10]

In the early days of JOSS, when Dan, Bill, and Tim were doing most, if not all the work, the cues produced were as good as Szamboti's. These cues were usually marked with the Block Letter Joss signature. Later as Bill & Tim went their own way and Dan ramped up production the quality droped due to the less skilled workers needed to keep up production numbers. Today Dan & his son seems to have brought back the Hand Made Custom cue which appear to be much better quality, however there is still a lot of mass production in the lower end cues. So to answer you question about cost: If you want a great cue built by a Master that plays like an old school cue, get a 70's Joss ($1,500+), if you want a new cue go try one of his Hand Made line ($1,500+), However if you want a $200 cue There are plenty of mass produced cues availible.

 

[trinacria]

Actually the value question is pretty easy to answer. When Joss was a combination of Janes, Stroud (early), and Scruggs from the late 60s to the late 70s, the Joss brand is pretty valuable. When they went to mass production, then there's less value, and very little collector value. It's the time period of production that matters.

This explains a lot. So stroud and Scruggs came out of there. See, Scruggs is my all time favorite playing cues. By a large margin. I'm guessing the cues that joss made while under them were significantly better. You gotta treat the talent right in your business or they'll leave you. The reason I asked was that joss has that name in the business but no one ever seems to know why. Kinda like old American cars. When they started to produce them cheap and ugly no one wanted to drive one, but in the 40, 50 and early sixties they still made great cars. The engines were solid, that's why there are so many still around from those years.