Certified instructors

TRWpool

TRWpool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello to all you who take an interest in whether I happen to be a certified instructor or not. There appears to be humors flying. So I wish to tell one and all, one time only, that I was certified as an instructor back in 1995 in Maryland by Jerry B. of the BCA. Not that I hold that distinction in such high regard. Jerry is a great guy and he does fine work. It is just that I have seen many very incompetent "certified" instructors over the years.

Certification by the BCA or any other organization to me means very little. And it shouldn't mean that much to you as an instructor or as a student. What qualifies an instructor is his or her knowledge of the subject and their ability to convey that knowledge in a clear, concise manor and with integrity. This in fact is what the BCA was suppose to be about. To let the student know that he is getting an instructor who knows how to teach a productive method of learning for the student. That's all.

I have not been convinced that has been the case for several year now. I've seen many so called certified instructors who don't know how to play very well and teach with even less proficiency. Now before all you certified instructors blow your corks. I understand that for the most part the certified instructor program is a good thing and that most of you are excellent teachers. However there are a number of instructors who are not so good either, and you should be as alarmed as I am that they hold the same standing as you do as a qualified certified instructor. It is not so difficult to tell if someone knows what they are talking about on this site if they post enough responses. You may not agree with their approach in all matters but the fundamentals of what they write will be sound.

Well, I had to blow off a little steam here and I apologize in advance to anyone I may have offended, but in reality I believe the only ones I may be offending here are the incompetents posing as something else.

I'm not saying I'm the best instructor on this site. There are many excellent teachers here, but I know THAT because of what I've read from their posts, not because of some title they hang on their wall or place at the tail end of their postings.

Tom Wirth
 
TRWpool said:
Hello to all you who take an interest in whether I happen to be a certified instructor or not. There appears to be humors flying. So I wish to tell one and all, one time only, that I was certified as an instructor back in 1995 in Maryland by Jerry B. of the BCA. Not that I hold that distinction in such high regard. Jerry is a great guy and he does fine work. It is just that I have seen many very incompetent "certified" instructors over the years.

Certification by the BCA or any other organization to me means very little. And it shouldn't mean that much to you as an instructor or as a student. What qualifies an instructor is his or her knowledge of the subject and their ability to convey that knowledge in a clear, concise manor and with integrity. This in fact is what the BCA was suppose to be about. To let the student know that he is getting an instructor who knows how to teach a productive method of learning for the student. That's all.

I have not been convinced that has been the case for several year now. I've seen many so called certified instructors who don't know how to play very well and teach with even less proficiency. Now before all you certified instructors blow your corks. I understand that for the most part the certified instructor program is a good thing and that most of you are excellent teachers. However there are a number of instructors who are not so good either, and you should be as alarmed as I am that they hold the same standing as you do as a qualified certified instructor. It is not so difficult to tell if someone knows what they are talking about on this site if they post enough responses. You may not agree with their approach in all matters but the fundamentals of what they write will be sound.

Well, I had to blow off a little steam here and I apologize in advance to anyone I may have offended, but in reality I believe the only ones I may be offending here are the incompetents posing as something else.

I'm not saying I'm the best instructor on this site. There are many excellent teachers here, but I know THAT because of what I've read from their posts, not because of some title they hang on their wall or place at the tail end of their postings.

Tom Wirth
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Hey Tom, great to see you posting on AZ!

Your comment has merit. But in a mild defense of the BCA (and ACS), I'd say that they make an honest attempt at addressing the problem with their four tier instructor levels. As a Level 2 Instructor, I don't claim to have the knowledge of an Advanced or Master instructor. That's why I tend to teach mostly intermediate players, though I've had some pretty snappy players come to me for help, too.

So I think there's a need for teachers like me, who are good at the fundamentals and things like 8-ball strategy (for the almost half a million 8-ball league players in the US).

Also, it's not a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. I get a lot of good feedback from my students, but I occasionally meet someone who doesn't care for my teaching style, that's OK. That's why I always suggest going to more than one teacher.

Another benefit with guys like me is that I probably charge less for lessons than any other instructor.

Have you hooked up with the young fella who contacted me about you? He was looking for one-pocket instruction and asked about you.
I gave you a pretty strong endorsement!
 
Hi Don,
I want to thank you for your reply here today. By no means was I trying to cast stones at the BCA instructor program or its instructors by my comments. I believe there should be a program which benefits both student and instructor respectively. The multilevel system is also beneficial for the same reasons. I have only completed the first level of their program, however I have also over the years instructed several top touring pros in some of the finer points of One Pocket. If anyone needs a list they can PM me. I will provide privately the names of those players who I know wouldn't mind my doing so. I never went to them with an offer. In each and every case these players came to me knowing full well my credentials beforehand.

I never felt the need to advance my status with the BCA for the purpose of achieving their endorsement. As far as I am concerned, my record stands for itself. A persons value is not always measured by the gold records, diplomas, degrees, or levels of expertice, some organization confers. Is that arrogance? Maybe. But that is why I stand by my statement. I simple believe that we all must not put blind, overwhelming faith in the sheepskin and trust rather in our ability to see past the Bullcrap.

Don you are a fine teacher. I know that because I know you , not because of your endorsement from the BCA. I believe I am deeper than that.

Finally, Yes someone has come forward asking me for lessons. I will be seeing him this Sat. at his home. And thank you very much for your endorsement. That means more to me than any piece of paper I might receive. You are a friend.

Tom
 
There are bad "certified" everything in the world, doctors, lawyers, teachers, plumbers, hockey coaches, you name it, and somebody screwed it up.

It makes no sense to me why someone would want to go through the certification process, which is time and money, and not want to strive to be a great instructor, but it is hard to explain a loser mentality, and most folks will know who they are once the lesson is over......

I've yet to read any "bad" lesson experiences on here yet... but who knows, maybe some folks are bashful :)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
There are bad "certified" everything in the world, doctors, lawyers, teachers, plumbers, hockey coaches, you name it, and somebody screwed it up.

It makes no sense to me why someone would want to go through the certification process, which is time and money, and not want to strive to be a great instructor, but it is hard to explain a loser mentality, and most folks will know who they are once the lesson is over......

I've yet to read any "bad" lesson experiences on here yet... but who knows, maybe some folks are bashful :)
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RJ:

Not speaking to the pool instructor aspect, but I can tell you in other industries (e.g. the one I work in -- information technology or I.T.) that certification is a "check-box item." Meaning, it's required if you want to be able to get through the door, or be considered for a project, or be even eligible to respond to an RFP (request for proposal).

If you don't have the certification, you are eliminated right at the outset -- regardless if you are actually good at what you do.

It's a shame, because there are talented folks who are uncertified that are really good at what they do, and on the flip-side of the coin, there are folks holding a certification that honestly one is left scratching his/her head wondering how that person was able to pass the certification exams in the first place. (Which we all know really happens because of "studying for the test" or taking courses that "teach the test.")

The certification is only the initial indicator that the person has, at one time, studied the course material sufficiently to pass a written exam (in the case of a written exam, anyway).

Some companies -- like Cisco -- try to foil the "paper certifications" by implementing a practical exam. The CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetworking Expert) is a good example; not only do you have to pass a battery of written exams, but you have to go in front of an oral board and perform a practical exam, where they beat the crap out of you. Pass *that*, and there's no question you know your stuff and can demonstrate it to customers.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
RJ:

Not speaking to the pool instructor aspect, but I can tell you in other industries (e.g. the one I work in -- information technology or I.T.) that certification is a "check-box item." Meaning, it's required if you want to be able to get through the door, or be considered for a project, or be even eligible to respond to an RFP (request for proposal).

If you don't have the certification, you are eliminated right at the outset -- regardless if you are actually good at what you do.

It's a shame, because there are talented folks who are uncertified that are really good at what they do, and on the flip-side of the coin, there are folks holding a certification that honestly one is left scratching his/her head wondering how that person was able to pass the certification exams in the first place. (Which we all know really happens because of "studying for the test" or taking courses that "teach the test.")

The certification is only the initial indicator that the person has, at one time, studied the course material sufficiently to pass a written exam (in the case of a written exam, anyway).

Some companies -- like Cisco -- try to foil the "paper certifications" by implementing a practical exam. The CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetworking Expert) is a good example; not only do you have to pass a battery of written exams, but you have to go in front of an oral board and perform a practical exam, where they beat the crap out of you. Pass *that*, and there's no question you know your stuff and can demonstrate it to customers.

-Sean
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Yeah, I understand Sean, and it's not a bad thing. It's a lot like a liberal arts college degree.... well, at least the person put forth the effort to complete a 4 year commitment, and earn the degree, and surely learned how to write well and hopefully can use logic to do a variety of jobs.

Does not mean they are competent, and surely does not mean someone without it could not do a better job, but like everywhere there are basic standards, just like a plumber going through his training versus the "handy man" who learned on his own...

But in sports, there is NOT much to certified coaches, instructors, and others that teach their sport. I'm not sure how certified most of the NCAA college football coaches are, or MLB baseball, etc....

Does it take away from having it, certinaly NOT, and adds to the professionalism that you care enough to work on your craft. Is it mandatory for everyone to have it to teach, absolutely not. And I say that as an "certified" advanced billiards instructor and a non certified baseball coach....
 
Donny Lutz said:
Hey Tom, great to see you posting on AZ!

Your comment has merit. But in a mild defense of the BCA (and ACS), I'd say that they make an honest attempt at addressing the problem with their four tier instructor levels. As a Level 2 Instructor, I don't claim to have the knowledge of an Advanced or Master instructor. That's why I tend to teach mostly intermediate players, though I've had some pretty snappy players come to me for help, too.

So I think there's a need for teachers like me, who are good at the fundamentals and things like 8-ball strategy (for the almost half a million 8-ball league players in the US).

Also, it's not a one-size-fits-all kind of thing. I get a lot of good feedback from my students, but I occasionally meet someone who doesn't care for my teaching style, that's OK. That's why I always suggest going to more than one teacher.

Another benefit with guys like me is that I probably charge less for lessons than any other instructor.

Have you hooked up with the young fella who contacted me about you? He was looking for one-pocket instruction and asked about you.
I gave you a pretty strong endorsement!
Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

i agree with you on the most things for sure-- just this thing about *charging*-- i really think that we have to make here *differences*. If you re making a living from instructing, then you have to calculate different than the guys, who re doing this *just* beside their usualy work. But i know what you mean :wink:

First thing which is needed is the passion -you have to love it (next to have the necessary expirience, knowledge- and being able to play a bit helps also, of course also it helps you if it s about reputation).
When i started to instruct more than playing, i couldn t imagine, that there are many *strange* and *jealous* guys. I would have never thought of that before.

All the best for you and your students :)
lg from overseas,
Ingo
 
The pink elephant in the room is how certification can make it difficult to speak your mind. There are only some certified instructors who will sign off asserting that 100% of what their governing body teaches is absolutely true.

Please note I say "100%" and "absolutely" by way of a caveat.

I've had correspondence with people leaving different bodies because they are tired of fighting the wind...
 
It has never been just about the money for me, folks. Don't get me wrong, I like money. But I'm really not in that great of need of the money I generate from the pool lessons I provide. I charge a nominal rate to my students because I feel it's important that we all should pay a price for the services we receive. And unless I have something pressing immediately following, I typically let the lesson run overtime without any additonal charge to the student. My primary goal is always to convey the information. I love to teach those students eagar to learn.

When I get feedback from a student who shows that wonderful, enthusiastic tone in their voice when they tell me how they successfully used something they learned from one of my lessons, it helps to make it all worthwhile. It makes my day. There aren't many better feelings in the world while wearing clothes. I guess I'm just easy to please.

Tom
 
TRWpool said:
It has never been just about the money for me, folks. Don't get me wrong, I like money. But I'm really not in that great of need of the money I generate from the pool lessons I provide. I charge a nominal rate to my students because I feel it's important that we all should pay a price for the services we receive. And unless I have something pressing immediately following, I typically let the lesson run overtime without any additonal charge to the student. My primary goal is always to convey the information. I love to teach those students eagar to learn.

When I get feedback from a student who shows that wonderful, enthusiastic tone in their voice when they tell me how they successfully used something they learned from one of my lessons, it helps to make it all worthwhile. It makes my day. There aren't many better feelings in the world while wearing clothes. I guess I'm just easy to please.

Tom
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Mr. Tom,

I don't know about easy to please, but you seem to be a caring, truthful, honest, unassuming, person that loves the game & truely enjoys the feeling of gratification it can give to you even in the passing on of your pool knowledge. The money is just lagniappe, as we say in Southern Louisiana. If one is doing something for money & one is doing it for love, I'll take the one doing it for love every time. However, as you say one should always be paid for their services unless they themselves want to gift them.

Best Regards,
 
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Thanks for the kind sentiments, Rick.
I appreciate very much your saying it.

Tom
 
In academia, and usually only among ourselves and the graduate students, it is commonly understood that -

A Ph.D. doesn't mean a damn thing -- unless you haven't got one.

It is a prerequisite to apply for a university teaching appointment. It does not mean that one can teach. After thirty years of university teaching here is an essay I wrote on what it takes to be a teacher.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/PBReview/Who_Is_A_Teacher.htm
 
Thank you for sharing that essay, Joe.
As a pool instructor I learned that if I listened carefully to my students I could learn as much from them as they could learn from me. We of course were learning different things. The students learn the lessons pretaining to pool while, I am learning to become a better instructor. I strive to develop stronger communication skills, work to improve my ability to instill and maintain enthusiasim in my students, and continually seek a more direct way of sharing the information of the day. Each student has individual needs and assimilates information in their own way. I see my job as one which requires me to adjust my teaching style to fit the needs of my students. This is not always easy but very satisfying when accomplished.

Tom
 
BilliardsAbout said:
The pink elephant in the room is how certification can make it difficult to speak your mind. There are only some certified instructors who will sign off asserting that 100% of what their governing body teaches is absolutely true.

Please note I say "100%" and "absolutely" by way of a caveat.

I've had correspondence with people leaving different bodies because they are tired of fighting the wind...
Click to expand...

First of all, the PBIA does not teach anything, nor does it dictate what can and can't be taught.

If you want to progress within the program, it would probably not be a good idea to start arguing with the Advanced or Master Instructor who is going to be training and testing you. I think that holds true for everything in life. You learn how to become a team player until you are in a position to be able to call your own shots.

I didn't agree with everything my instructors taught and tested me on when I was advancing in the program. But I appreciated where they were coming from and respected their positions. And now that I look back, it's a good thing I kept my mouth shut in certain instances because years later, I realized I would have been wrong.

Now I'm in a position to train instructors and share the experience and expertise that I've earned throughout the years and yep, new instructors should probably refrain from arguing with me if they want to pass my course.

If people aren't willing to exercise self control, patience, and being a team player, then they probably are better off staying out of any organized programs.
 
fran

this thread was started by trw
why havent you addressed him once in all your replies to HIS thread???(or any of his posts ??)
just askin
p.s im not an instructor
 
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bbb said:
fran

this thread was started by trw
why havent you addressed him once in all your replies to HIS thread???(or any of his posts ??)
just askin
p.s im not an instructor
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Well, OK if you insist. I wouldn't want to disappoint you. I think his comments were well thought out and well stated. I imagine there are some bad instructors in the program. I can only say that I try to do my part in training instructors to the best of my ability and I sincerely hope that the bad ones are not instructors who have trained with me. I also recommend that he write to the PBIA and name them so that the instructors who trained them can follow up and find out what's going on with them.
 
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I thank you for your comments Fran. I hope you understand I mean to cast no disparaging remarks toward the BCA or its instructor program. I feel the BCA is fulfilling an important function with their program.

To clarify my stance I wish to offer a bit of background. I recieved a PM from a member of AZB shortly before my somewhat controversial post. This PM warned me that there were members here who, as it was put to me, "might be out to get me because they did not believe I was a certified instructor." I couldn't understand why anyone here would feel this way but the comment got my blood up, and so my post. I felt then and still do feel that knowledge is knowledge and to place so much stock in whether someone is certified to the blind exclusion of all others is patently unfair and bigoted. I believe anyone who demonstrates great knowledge in a particular field, regardless of whether that knowledge should come from a certification course or through life experience, that person should be treated with the respect that goes with that knowledge. Though I am a certified instructor, I will welcome without bias or elitism any inteligent input on the subject of pool. I dedicated all of my adult life to this sport and refuse to belittle the game by ignoring another persons valid thoughts whoever they may be. Can you tell I hold rather strong feelings on this topic?

To all of you who teach the newcomers to become certified instructors, I only wish to say that I certainly have great faith in your purpose and your dedication to certifying quality instructors. However, In every field some poorly qualified results will be found. This should not detract from the enormously positive impact the BCA certification program provides. But it is like anything else. Buyer beware. The truth will always surface somehow and the weak and incompetent will be found out eventually.

Thanks,
Tom
 
FranCrimi said:
Well, OK if you insist. I wouldn't want to disappoint you. I think his comments were well thought out and well stated. I imagine there are some bad instructors in the program. I can only say that I try to do my part in training instructors to the best of my ability and I sincerely hope that the bad ones are not instructors who have trained with me. I also recommend that he write to the PBIA and name them so that the instructors who trained them can follow up and find out what's going on with them.
Click to expand...

fran
thank you for your reply
 
TRWpool said:
I thank you for your comments Fran. I hope you understand I mean to cast no disparaging remarks toward the BCA or its instructor program. I feel the BCA is fulfilling an important function with their program.

To clarify my stance I wish to offer a bit of background. I recieved a PM from a member of AZB shortly before my somewhat controversial post. This PM warned me that there were members here who, as it was put to me, "might be out to get me because they did not believe I was a certified instructor." I couldn't understand why anyone here would feel this way but the comment got my blood up, and so my post. I felt then and still do feel that knowledge is knowledge and to place so much stock in whether someone is certified to the blind exclusion of all others is patently unfair and bigoted. I believe anyone who demonstrates great knowledge in a particular field, regardless of whether that knowledge should come from a certification course or through life experience, that person should be treated with the respect that goes with that knowledge. Though I am a certified instructor, I will welcome without bias or elitism any inteligent input on the subject of pool. I dedicated all of my adult life to this sport and refuse to belittle the game by ignoring another persons valid thoughts whoever they may be. Can you tell I hold rather strong feelings on this topic?

To all of you who teach the newcomers to become certified instructors, I only wish to say that I certainly have great faith in your purpose and your dedication to certifying quality instructors. However, In every field some poorly qualified results will be found. This should not detract from the enormously positive impact the BCA certification program provides. But it is like anything else. Buyer beware. The truth will always surface somehow and the weak and incompetent will be found out eventually.

Thanks,
Tom
Click to expand...

Tom, I think some PMs can be detrimental and manipulative and you should act with caution in those exchanges behind the scenes.

I hope you follow through and report the names of the bad instructors to the PBIA.
 
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