CF shaft build, insert thread question

DeeRay86

Active member
I started building my own carbon shafts once I found a carbon tube that I really liked. But one of the shafts are coming loose after a little bit of play time. Does anybody have any tips or tricks to maybe add some resistance or whatever the word is I'm sure y'all understand what I'm saying, to the thread pitch in the insert to help keep them from loosening up? Or maybe I need a better taps! I'm not sure, thanks in advance. I'm having this problem with radial pins which is the only pin I have built shafts for. But I'm about to build several shafts with all different pins. I'm worried I'll have the same problem with other pitches. Inserts are phenolic.
 
I started building my own carbon shafts once I found a carbon tube that I really liked. But one of the shafts are coming loose after a little bit of play time. Does anybody have any tips or tricks to maybe add some resistance or whatever the word is I'm sure y'all understand what I'm saying, to the thread pitch in the insert to help keep them from loosening up? Or maybe I need a better taps! I'm not sure, thanks in advance. I'm having this problem with radial pins which is the only pin I have built shafts for. But I'm about to build several shafts with all different pins. I'm worried I'll have the same problem with other pitches. Inserts are phenolic.
#1 id make certain the faces of the shaft and cue are flat
#2 guess is your hole drilled or bored was to big

Where did you get your tap?
What material did you use for the insert?
 
My guess is wrong minor or wrong/worn taps or a combination.
Drilling undersized and boring and reaming to size is the only way to go, that's where gage pins come in real handy.
If you're tapping threads like 3/8-10 a H0 tap is what you want, that gives the tightest fit.
Make a list of minor diameter for the most common pins.
What threads/pin is the shaft that comes loose and what minor did you go with?
 
I shouldn't do this, but my inner Don Quixote is egging me on.

I'll preface that in case you didn't know, it is no secret that I think all forms of radial thread pins are the biggest, saddest joke in the cue industry.

A properly designed threaded joint (construction screws aside, but our cue joints share nothing with them) should not rely on a tight minor diameter to stay together. A proper screw joint should act like a cable pulling two objects together--the forces between the components should be what keeps the two pieces together. This is called a two-force member. Screws should not be subject to shear (side) forces.

That said, there are only two reasons that screws loosen. First, if the screw is unloading and the tension is lost. Second, there is not enough friction in the joint (in our case, most of the friction should be between the joint faces, not on the minor diameter of the screw.

In the first scenario, it is possible that faces that aren't flat can cause some unloading of the screw. This would mostly be if one or both faces have any crown and the outer edges are not seating. When hit, the joint will flex and cause weirdness in the pin loading.

In the second scenario, there are a few factors. First, if it takes a lot of torque just to screw the pin into the shaft, you reduce the available torque to seat the joint since we are limited by our grip strength to provide the torque. Second, if you have slippery materials on the joint faces, this will greatly reduce friction. I had this problem recently on a cue, I scuffed the faces back to a 400-grit finish and the problem never resurfaced (pun not intended). Finally, it may be a bit of a stretch, but since you are seeing it on CF, there is a chance that the natural frequency of the CF shaft is high enough to reduce friction in the joint just from the vibrations--this phenomenon is prevalent in aerospace, in flight many friction forces go to nearly zero due to the vibration, and FAA requires all friction dependent fasteners (i.e. screws) to be secured with a secondary method (often wire through the fastener.

Inspection will be your friend. I would suggest that a good magnifying glass or digital microscope (I just got one for $35 from amazon) will be helpful. Inspect the joint faces for any witness marking which may show where the joint is seating and where it isn't.
 
all forms of radial thread pins are the biggest, saddest joke in the cue industry
+1
However, with that being the thought. There are many that got hood winked into believing they are all that.

To the OP...I suspect the faces of your joint are amiss (or a mess) which ever you prefer.
My guess is one or possibly both faces are convex and not fully locking.
If this is the case you can twist the 2 halves together as hard as you might trying to tighten the joint and will get the same end result.
A shaft that will not tighten down completely at the joint and will continually become loose.


You forgot to say hold my beer.....
I shouldn't do this,
;)
 
Everything checked out other than the pin. My tap is perfectly fine for everything I have done in radial. It's the pin that Eugene Ivantsov uses and Dale Perry's chinese ebay stuff. I guess there is a American and a chinese radial!?
 
I started building my own carbon shafts once I found a carbon tube that I really liked. But one of the shafts are coming loose after a little bit of play time. Does anybody have any tips or tricks to maybe add some resistance or whatever the word is I'm sure y'all understand what I'm saying, to the thread pitch in the insert to help keep them from loosening up? Or maybe I need a better taps! I'm not sure, thanks in advance. I'm having this problem with radial pins which is the only pin I have built shafts for. But I'm about to build several shafts with all different pins. I'm worried I'll have the same problem with other pitches. Inserts are phenolic.
What tubes have you been using? This has nothing to do with your issue. Just curious.
 
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