come down on the line vs sweep to the line NOT CTEE

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bbb

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ok you all have been with me in my struggles
and i thank you for all who gave constructive advice......:thumbup:
ive mentioned my proclivity to come down alittle left of center
producing unwanted left spin on my straight ins
and causing the object ball to go more left than desired because of the left of center hit causing the the cue ball to right of the intended aim line....:mad:
ive tried many things to correct it
well here is what i found out what works for me (at least for the last 2 days)
usually a right handed player has the cue stick when he is behind the shot
angled in the air slanted to the left
so as you get down on the shot
you are sweeping from left to right
i experimented with holding the cue more up and down where actually looking at the
object ball with the cue in the way cue gives 2 cues with the shot line in the middle
i found if i come straight down on the shot line and TRUST my alignment
i have eliminated the left spin and throwing the object ball
SO
what are your opinions
on coming straight down vs sweeping left to right to address???
 
Simple, you do the one that works for you.

Sometimes, coming in from the left, people have a tendency to look at the cb for center from the wrong place. This means they find center before they turn into the cb. This will automatically make you align to center a little to the left of actual center cb once you are down.

If you are going to sweep in from the side, you just have to make sure you align to the actual center of the cb once your head is in the right plane. Which means you have to get your head in place before you place your bridge hand.
 
Larry, I think you're making a good adjustment by coming straight down over the line of the shot. But just keep this in mind:

Basically, what you're really trying to do is to break a habit. Don't be fooled into thinking you've got it after a few days just because you are getting good results. If you haven't completely broken the habit, your sub conscious mind will try to get back to the old approach and your old feel at the table, because that's what it knows. You probably won't feel yourself slowly slipping back to your old approach, and you may start to think that the new approach isn't working anymore (But it's really not the new approach)

So you will have to stay disciplined and conscious in your approach longer than you think you need to.
 
Neil said:
Simple, you do the one that works for you.

Sometimes, coming in from the left, people have a tendency to look at the cb for center from the wrong place. This means they find center before they turn into the cb. This will automatically make you align to center a little to the left of actual center cb once you are down.

If you are going to sweep in from the side, you just have to make sure you align to the actual center of the cb once your head is in the right plane. Which means you have to get your head in place before you place your bridge hand.
Click to expand...

actually once i line up my eyes are on the contact point of the object ball as i am lowering my body
my eyes dont shift to the cue ball until im down and at address
 
FranCrimi said:
Larry, I think you're making a good adjustment by coming straight down over the line of the shot. But just keep this in mind:

Basically, what you're really trying to do is to break a habit. Don't be fooled into thinking you've got it after a few days just because you are getting good results. If you haven't completely broken the habit, your sub conscious mind will try to get back to the old approach and your old feel at the table, because that's what it knows. You probably won't feel yourself slowly slipping back to your old approach, and you may start to think that the new approach isn't working anymore (But it's really not the new approach)

So you will have to stay disciplined and conscious in your approach longer than you think you need to.
Click to expand...

fran
i do realize this is a work in progress
yesterday i took it to the pool room and since things went well
i think i brag alittle......:embarrassed2::embarrassed2::embarrassed2::grin:
.......
i won a set of 9 ball 7-5 against someone who usually beats me 7/3-5 yesterday (fwiw he is an apa 8)
forcing myself to line up and come down more straight
i was pocketing balls like i used to when i was really in a groove a few months ago....:).
it also didnt hurt that i made some spectacular kicks...:)
when i came down my old way (left to right) which i did at times from it being a habit i also felt more on the line and didnt have to make a correction when down
on one run out i had about a 5 diamond distance between cue ball and object ball and 2 diamonds of object ball to pocket
i needed a perfect stop shot to have perfect shape on the 9
(the 8 had already been made)
I NAILED IT WITH NO UNINTENTIONAL SPIN......:thumbup:
 
FranCrimi said:
Larry, I think you're making a good adjustment by coming straight down over the line of the shot. But just keep this in mind:

Basically, what you're really trying to do is to break a habit. Don't be fooled into thinking you've got it after a few days just because you are getting good results. If you haven't completely broken the habit, your sub conscious mind will try to get back to the old approach and your old feel at the table, because that's what it knows. You probably won't feel yourself slowly slipping back to your old approach, and you may start to think that the new approach isn't working anymore (But it's really not the new approach)

So you will have to stay disciplined and conscious in your approach longer than you think you need to.
Click to expand...

fran
i will look out for that..thanks for the advice
another thing i have started doing
is i have a laser leveler and i try to align to the light source
and come down into position and see if the laser light is in the center of my tip
as expected with the old way i am often 1/ 2 tip to the left
with the newer way i am dead center more often
also
i do some practice strokes seeing if the laser stays in the center of the tip
ive noticed that my practice strokes are usually pretty straight but occasionally
my finish is alittle left
im working to fix that
the feed back of keeping the light on the center of the tip and center of the shaft
is immediate and i think it is helping reinforce good muscle memory
 
Larry,

I think you know it, but Fran is giving you good advice.

I sometimes still revert back to what I use to & still 'want' to do at times because it is ingrained through decades of implementation & it was not necessarily wrong back then.

It worked & worked well back then, but my body is not what it was back then.

You should not have that to influence you. I would suggest that you hold to Fran's advice.

Best,
Rick
 
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bbb said:
fran
i will look out for that..thanks for the advice
another thing i have started doing
is i have a laser leveler and i try to align to the light source
and come down into position and see if the laser light is in the center of my tip
as expected with the old way i am often 1/ 2 tip to the left
with the newer way i am dead center more often
also
i do some practice strokes seeing if the laser stays in the center of the tip
ive noticed that my practice strokes are usually pretty straight but occasionally
my finish is alittle left
im working to fix that
the feed back of keeping the light on the center of the tip and center of the shaft
is immediate and i think it is helping reinforce good muscle memory
Click to expand...

Glad to hear the laser is helping you. I haven't experimented with it so I don't know how it works, but it sounds like a good idea.

Even though there's no such thing as muscle memory --- literally, that is --- I know what you mean. You're creating a better habit to override the old habit that wasn't so good.
 
FranCrimi said:
Glad to hear the laser is helping you. I haven't experimented with it so I don't know how it works, but it sounds like a good idea.

Even though there's no such thing as muscle memory --- literally, that is --- I know what you mean. You're creating a better habit to override the old habit that wasn't so good.
Click to expand...

exactly right....:thumbup:
 
FranCrimi said:
...there's no such thing as muscle memory --- literally, that is
Click to expand...
Point of interest:

It's true that memory isn't actually stored in muscles, but it might be closer to that than you think. When we practice repetitive motions over a period of time our bodies actually physically "optimize" the nerve passages between the brain and the muscles so the motion becomes more automatic and habitual. This is what we call "muscle memory".

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Point of interest:

It's true that memory isn't actually stored in muscles, but it might be closer to that than you think. When we practice repetitive motions over a period of time our bodies actually physically "optimize" the nerve passages between the brain and the muscles so the motion becomes more automatic and habitual. This is what we call "muscle memory".

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

Then perhaps a more accurate term should be coined for that effect rather than one that is incorrect.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I kinda like muscle memory - it expresses the physicality of it and actually is in the ballpark reality-wise (memory ~ neural programming).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I tried to find your definition of muscle memory online and I couldn't.

Here's what I found: What is being called 'muscle memory' refers to additional nuclei that are created through muscle growth through training. This is common in weight-lifting and other athletic sports where muscle growth takes place. These nuclei remain in the muscle fibers long after the person stops performing. Once the person starts to perform again --- such as weight-training, the muscle growth is at a faster rate than the first time due to the additional nuclei that are sill present. Of course, a significant retraining period is still necessary.

Actual 'memory' however, can only be associated with the brain.

I think that what most people are referring to in pool when they use the term 'muscle memory,' is remembering the feel of shooting. I'm sure there's also a small amount of muscle rebuilding as well, but I don't think that's what the player is referring to.
 
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FranCrimi said:
I think that what most people are referring to in pool when they use the term 'muscle memory,' is remembering the feel of shooting. I'm sure there's also a small amount of muscle rebuilding as well, but I don't think that's what the player is referring to.
Click to expand...
It's not what I was referring to either. Here's a sample of what I was talking about:

Neuroplasticity and how training changes the structure of the brain

It's not literally memory in muscle, but it is literally physically formed through repetitive practice.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It's not what I was referring to either. Here's a sample of what I was talking about:

Neuroplasticity and how training changes the structure of the brain

It's not literally memory in muscle, but it is literally physically formed through repetitive practice.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I see now where you're coming from. The article doesn't mention the term 'muscle memory, though.' The only mention of the term comes from a reader's response who is interpreting the article as a description of muscle memory. I think that reader is wrong in his interpretation.

I gave the scientific definition earlier in this thread of what has been affectionately coined 'muscle memory.'

The article you linked is a little vague in it's details, but it's definitely a fascinating article. I'd be very interested in seeing further studies about the correlation between brain growth and high level athletic performance. Thanks for posting it.

Oh and here's something that I find fascinating ---- It seems that the brain growth could be due to diversity and not drilling in the same exact routine which only occupies one very deep neuro-pathway. It seems like the brain is growing to accommodate all the different scenarios that the expert has learned to cope with.

Maybe players aren't learning a whole lot by setting up the same shot over and over and over to practice their stroke. I've always felt that diversity is the key. How many times have I suggested here to mix things up? About a million. LOL
 
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Coming across the line of aim is a recipe for disaster if you focus on the OB contact point when going down. The area of the OB you are focusing on shifts as you move your head across the line of aim and you end up having alignment issues, cueing across the line of aim and develop inconsistencies within your game. It's great to hear you are working on correcting this and I wish you luck.

It all starts with the footwork. Get the back foot on line first, then the grip then the bridge whilst always keeping the line of sight locked. Getting these things on line will help with coming down along your desired aim line.

I personally have a huge sweep of the cue from left to right as I get down. The cue starts out almost horizontal across my hips. The sweep doesn't really matter. What does is getting the sighting line locked in on the line of aim and not losing it whilst going down.
 
Pidge said:
Coming across the line of aim is a recipe for disaster if you focus on the OB contact point when going down. The area of the OB you are focusing on shifts as you move your head across the line of aim and you end up having alignment issues, cueing across the line of aim and develop inconsistencies within your game. It's great to hear you are working on correcting this and I wish you luck.

It all starts with the footwork. Get the back foot on line first, then the grip then the bridge whilst always keeping the line of sight locked. Getting these things on line will help with coming down along your desired aim line.

I personally have a huge sweep of the cue from left to right as I get down. The cue starts out almost horizontal across my hips. The sweep doesn't really matter. What does is getting the sighting line locked in on the line of aim and not losing it whilst going down.
Click to expand...
pidge thanks for the response
my foot/ grip hand / head are on the shot line when i sweep (at least i think so)
maybe i need to have someone watch me and tell me if i am sliding my head with the cue and thats been the problem
i will say that as im trying to come more straight down i feel like im falling into the slot (shot line) way more often
with less adjustments when down
i realize this is still very early in the process but so far the feedback is good
as fran said i will remember to look to see that the old habits dont creep back in
 
bbb said:
pidge thanks for the response
my foot/ grip hand / head are on the shot line when i sweep (at least i think so)
maybe i need to have someone watch me and tell me if i am sliding my head with the cue and thats been the problem
i will say that as im trying to come more straight down i feel like im falling into the slot (shot line) way more often
with less adjustments when down
i realize this is still very early in the process but so far the feedback is good
as fran said i will remember to look to see that the old habits dont creep back in
Click to expand...
Getting a friend or recording yourself head on would be beneficial. From there you can put a bit of tape vertically on the screen of what ever you watch it on to represent the line of aim and see if the eyes and cue deviate off this line. Once you're happy with how you approach the shot all it takes is practice... A he'll of a lot of practice but at least you're heading in the right direction for it to become second nature.
 
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