Consecutive racks question
- Thread starter Koop
- Start date
This is always a funny thing i bring up when i talk about learning the game of Pool.
My high run in 9ball is 2 racks, and that was nearly two years ago when i was just starting to play seriously, and it was on a 7ft table.
Now that i am ALOT better at pool, i break n run often, but rarely put together anything over 1 1/2 racks. Mainly because i play safe.
When i did run the two racks i was shooting at everything and was obviously making it. Now i just play smarter to win.
In 8ball its 1.5 racks, and thats in APA league play.
Now whats interesting, is the pool hall i goto started doing a 8ball tournament about a month ago and the first tournament, i smoked two guys who in 9ball just kill me.
Because i knew, what balls to run first and when to play safe. Plus alot of times i would break make a couple balls and just push a ball out to get it open, and then wait for the other guy to mess up trying to run out.
And its always interesting to see people who always play 9ball and can beat you 90% of the time, but they goto 8ball, and you end up just drilling them because you play 8ball all the time, and know the strategy.
dave
My high run in 9ball is 2 racks, and that was nearly two years ago when i was just starting to play seriously, and it was on a 7ft table.
Now that i am ALOT better at pool, i break n run often, but rarely put together anything over 1 1/2 racks. Mainly because i play safe.
When i did run the two racks i was shooting at everything and was obviously making it. Now i just play smarter to win.
In 8ball its 1.5 racks, and thats in APA league play.
Now whats interesting, is the pool hall i goto started doing a 8ball tournament about a month ago and the first tournament, i smoked two guys who in 9ball just kill me.
Because i knew, what balls to run first and when to play safe. Plus alot of times i would break make a couple balls and just push a ball out to get it open, and then wait for the other guy to mess up trying to run out.
And its always interesting to see people who always play 9ball and can beat you 90% of the time, but they goto 8ball, and you end up just drilling them because you play 8ball all the time, and know the strategy.
dave
I played in a handicap 8-ball tournament and played better than ever, If I have a zone, I was there. Won 17 games and cleaned 12 tables at first visit. It was Alt break and I had a 4 pack twice off my break. I finished in 4th. Handicap was I race to 5, other players that break run 1-2 racks in 20 when playing good, raced to 2. Double KO event 17-4 was my final result those 4 loses guys cleaned the table.
I would have played anyone that night and couldn't win a little weekly event.
I would have played anyone that night and couldn't win a little weekly event.
high run in 8 ball is 3.....far tougher game to string racks in.
VAP
VAP
Rodney said:
Hey Rodney,
Yes they are.
At Renaissance in Quincy there are 4 Diamond Pro cuts in the front.
I watched players during a Joss tournament make it look so damn easy. I can tell you from experience that it is far from easy and just goes to show how good those players are.
Koop
I think as far as records go, one will always have more 9ball racks strung together than 8ball. 8ball break is very difficult to master with all those choices...from the middle, from the rail 9ball style, second ball, softer, harder? What to choose if you suck at all of the above, lol? Plus you have to move 15 balls on the break, not just 9. It is also tough on pattern play...hot headed players who move the cueball too much and have no tactical skills (me) don't do well at 8ball.
On the other hand, with open table and no clusters, 9ball is more demanding on one's stroke. Need to move the cueball a lot in 9ball...long pots and sometimes even long draws are required...very rare in 8ball if you play well.
On the other hand, with open table and no clusters, 9ball is more demanding on one's stroke. Need to move the cueball a lot in 9ball...long pots and sometimes even long draws are required...very rare in 8ball if you play well.
Rodney said:
When Mark Ransom was selling the place he was offering the 9' Diamonds plus the light for $3500. Not sure if there are still some for sale but if there are, it's a great deal.
Come down any Sunday night bud. It's a lot of fun and the competition is very strong.
Koop
. 8 ball is easier than 9. No question about it, none...
Those of you who know a 9 baller who drills you at 9 but loses at 8 -
Your 9 ball player must not be that good of a player. No offence to anybody but every runout 9 ball player I have EVER seen can play all games well. I have never seen a good 9 ball player play bad 8 ball. They may prefer 9 but a good player is always a good player.
I've seen proof of 8 vs 9 on tape. If you watch pros play 8, they break and run WAY, WAY, more than they do playing 9 ball. I saw a match with efren and mike where they did nothing but break and run. I think each of them had a 5 pack and a four pack in the one match or something crazy like that.
Look at the IPT qualifiers. Look at all the racks those fellas strung together. I don't see or hear about several 5 packs or 7 packs in 9 ball events. Surely they happen but not like the IPT qualifiers.
All of the above applies to real tables. As far as the toys are concerned, I bet 9 ball would be pretty easy on a 7 footer. I've played about 20 games on a bar box in the last several years. Maybe 3 or 4 of those were nine ball. Ive gotten alot better since then so I can only imagine how much easier the game woud be.
I think 8 ball is easier on smaller tables because shot making is no longer a problem. Shot making is everyones real problem with pool, not breakout
Those of you who know a 9 baller who drills you at 9 but loses at 8 -
Your 9 ball player must not be that good of a player. No offence to anybody but every runout 9 ball player I have EVER seen can play all games well. I have never seen a good 9 ball player play bad 8 ball. They may prefer 9 but a good player is always a good player.
I've seen proof of 8 vs 9 on tape. If you watch pros play 8, they break and run WAY, WAY, more than they do playing 9 ball. I saw a match with efren and mike where they did nothing but break and run. I think each of them had a 5 pack and a four pack in the one match or something crazy like that.
Look at the IPT qualifiers. Look at all the racks those fellas strung together. I don't see or hear about several 5 packs or 7 packs in 9 ball events. Surely they happen but not like the IPT qualifiers.
All of the above applies to real tables. As far as the toys are concerned, I bet 9 ball would be pretty easy on a 7 footer. I've played about 20 games on a bar box in the last several years. Maybe 3 or 4 of those were nine ball. Ive gotten alot better since then so I can only imagine how much easier the game woud be.
I think 8 ball is easier on smaller tables because shot making is no longer a problem. Shot making is everyones real problem with pool, not breakout
correction
I was wrong about the Mika/Reyes match. I just rewatched it. It was alt break and here are the details-
Mika plays flawless. One scratch on break and two dry breaks. Got out of line once but shot his way out of it. 4 Break and Runs...
Efren plays near flawless. One dry break, misses one shot, gets out of line a couple times but shoots his way out of it. 6 Break and Runs...
Rack by Rack coverage
Mika wins lag
Rack 1 - Mika Breaks and Runs
Rack 2 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 3 - Mika Breaks and Runs
Rack 4 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 5 - Mika Breaks and Runs
Rack 6 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 7 - Dry break for Mika, Efren runs out
Rack 8 - Dry break for Efren, Mika runs out
Rack 9 - Mika drops the 8 on the break
Rack 10 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 11 - Mika comes up dry on the break, Efren misses only shot in match for either player, Mika runs out
Rack 12 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 13 - Mika scratches on break, Efren misses easy break out with ball in hand, runs the tough rack anyways
Rack 14 - Efren drops the 8 on the break to win the match
=====================================
Although this match was exceptional (Hard to believe Mika lost and played better than Reyes), most top level players play 8 ball like this. 9 ball is rarely played like this.
9 ball is just tougher to run out. The layout of the table dictates the runability of 9 ball to such an extent that it often does not allow a safe run out. 8 ball, on the other hand, has a myriad of patterns and choices to run out. A good player usually see a safe runout in 8 ball a good perentage of the time. Hence, making it an easier game to "Break and Run"...
I was wrong about the Mika/Reyes match. I just rewatched it. It was alt break and here are the details-
Mika plays flawless. One scratch on break and two dry breaks. Got out of line once but shot his way out of it. 4 Break and Runs...
Efren plays near flawless. One dry break, misses one shot, gets out of line a couple times but shoots his way out of it. 6 Break and Runs...
Rack by Rack coverage
Mika wins lag
Rack 1 - Mika Breaks and Runs
Rack 2 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 3 - Mika Breaks and Runs
Rack 4 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 5 - Mika Breaks and Runs
Rack 6 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 7 - Dry break for Mika, Efren runs out
Rack 8 - Dry break for Efren, Mika runs out
Rack 9 - Mika drops the 8 on the break
Rack 10 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 11 - Mika comes up dry on the break, Efren misses only shot in match for either player, Mika runs out
Rack 12 - Efren Breaks and Runs
Rack 13 - Mika scratches on break, Efren misses easy break out with ball in hand, runs the tough rack anyways
Rack 14 - Efren drops the 8 on the break to win the match
=====================================
Although this match was exceptional (Hard to believe Mika lost and played better than Reyes), most top level players play 8 ball like this. 9 ball is rarely played like this.
9 ball is just tougher to run out. The layout of the table dictates the runability of 9 ball to such an extent that it often does not allow a safe run out. 8 ball, on the other hand, has a myriad of patterns and choices to run out. A good player usually see a safe runout in 8 ball a good perentage of the time. Hence, making it an easier game to "Break and Run"...
My personal table in my basement is the tightest and fastest table I have ever played on.
Last weekend I broke and ran 4 racks in a row on a race to 5. The 5th rack a ball flew around the table and knocked the cue ball in the side while making 4 other balls. This was playing 8-ball and it's a 9' table which plays almost as fast as a Carom table....
My buddy has broke and ran 7 consecutive 9 ball racks on the same table. It was a race to 7 and he broke and ran the set....
Last weekend I broke and ran 4 racks in a row on a race to 5. The 5th rack a ball flew around the table and knocked the cue ball in the side while making 4 other balls. This was playing 8-ball and it's a 9' table which plays almost as fast as a Carom table....
My buddy has broke and ran 7 consecutive 9 ball racks on the same table. It was a race to 7 and he broke and ran the set....
9 ball is NOT easier than 8 ball. I play both religiously and feel adament about this.
Actually, with 8 ball you HAVE to pick an out from the begining of the rack and with as many break out shots you have to shoot, the run out changes a lot. Also you have a LOT of object balls in your way to move around which you don't have to worry about in 9 ball.
You don't see Pro's playing 8 ball because of the time contraints in a TV match, infact, that's why you see them playing 7 ball now, it is faster and lends itself to TV better.
8 ball is a harder game and requires a Much more ROUNDED all around game than 9 ball does...
IMHO as someone who plays way to much of both competitively...
Actually, with 8 ball you HAVE to pick an out from the begining of the rack and with as many break out shots you have to shoot, the run out changes a lot. Also you have a LOT of object balls in your way to move around which you don't have to worry about in 9 ball.
You don't see Pro's playing 8 ball because of the time contraints in a TV match, infact, that's why you see them playing 7 ball now, it is faster and lends itself to TV better.
8 ball is a harder game and requires a Much more ROUNDED all around game than 9 ball does...
IMHO as someone who plays way to much of both competitively...
What I have found ....
Someone that is good at 8 ball is almost always good at 9 ball. The exception being someone decent at 8 ball but not really good at controlling the cue ball.
Someone that is good at 9 ball, but makes fatal logic mistakes in 8 ball because 8 ball is more complex in nature than 9 ball. It is not their skill that defeats them, but their thought processes.
Knowing the right way to evaluate a situation can make a world of difference in how strong you play. Perhaps the most obvious illustration would be in knowing when to play a safety vs. going for a shot.
To me, most of the time, it is simple logic, but to other players it can be intense complex thought processes.
Someone that is good at 8 ball is almost always good at 9 ball. The exception being someone decent at 8 ball but not really good at controlling the cue ball.
Someone that is good at 9 ball, but makes fatal logic mistakes in 8 ball because 8 ball is more complex in nature than 9 ball. It is not their skill that defeats them, but their thought processes.
Knowing the right way to evaluate a situation can make a world of difference in how strong you play. Perhaps the most obvious illustration would be in knowing when to play a safety vs. going for a shot.
To me, most of the time, it is simple logic, but to other players it can be intense complex thought processes.
CaptiveBred said:8 ball is easier than 9. No question about it, none...
Those of you who know a 9 baller who drills you at 9 but loses at 8 -
Your 9 ball player must not be that good of a player. No offence to anybody but every runout 9 ball player I have EVER seen can play all games well. I have never seen a good 9 ball player play bad 8 ball. They may prefer 9 but a good player is always a good player.
I've seen proof of 8 vs 9 on tape. If you watch pros play 8, they break and run WAY, WAY, more than they do playing 9 ball. I saw a match with efren and mike where they did nothing but break and run. I think each of them had a 5 pack and a four pack in the one match or something crazy like that.
Look at the IPT qualifiers. Look at all the racks those fellas strung together. I don't see or hear about several 5 packs or 7 packs in 9 ball events. Surely they happen but not like the IPT qualifiers.
All of the above applies to real tables. As far as the toys are concerned, I bet 9 ball would be pretty easy on a 7 footer. I've played about 20 games on a bar box in the last several years. Maybe 3 or 4 of those were nine ball. Ive gotten alot better since then so I can only imagine how much easier the game woud be.
I think 8 ball is easier on smaller tables because shot making is no longer a problem. Shot making is everyones real problem with pool, not breakout
I have a mika immonen vs troy frank tape in 8 ball and the results were similar. I think Mika ran out every oppurtunity he got to the table. Troy on the other hand messed up a few run outs. A couple of times he ran 6 or 7 balls than missed.
One thing I did notice was that the break was working very well for the players. Mika and Troy were getting runable racks every time. The only thing that stopped Troy was poor decision making.
I think there is more that can go wrong with an 8 ball break because more clusters can develop.
However in regards to 9 ball players being very good at all games I have to disagree. I played one of the top 9 ballers at my pool hall (amateur not pro) in 14.1, snooker and 8 ball. I am no where near his speed at 9 ball but gosh did he get a beating those three games.
I think a draw back to being simply a 9 ball player is that your not used to making a lot of choices. If there is a cluster you just choose what ball in the progression to try and break it up. The other games require a bit more creativity. Patterns are not outlined for you you have to recognize them.
Im not saying one is easier than the other. I think that both games have their challenges.
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