Cue hanger to straighten cues??

[dooziexx]

Guys & Gals,
Saw this on ebay. Wonder if it works.... Anyone tried it before? Comments from cuemakers?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...1&category=1292&sspagename=STRK:MEBWA:IT&rd=1

 

[Joseph Cues]

It won't straighten cues. A crooked butt cannot be straighten by hanging.
Same with the shafts. You can bend a shaft on the rail of a pool table opposite of the direction of the warp. But, it'll probably revert to the the warp.
It is my opinion that cuemakers who dip (on stabilizer) their shafts after every pass, make shafts that are more susceptible to warpage when they go out of the shop.
The makers who show patience and don't mind rejecting a few more shafts, let the shafts warp and take the warp out slowly.

 

[accdealer]

Here's a secret that was handed down to me by two generations of cuemakers who will remain nameless.

"When building a cue, if the grain in the wood is straight, the cue will never warp. However, if there are bends and curves in the grain, the cue will probably warp in the same areas where those bends and curves are."

That won't help you straighten a cue, but may help you in the future when shopping for one.

 

[Joseph Cues]

Here's a secret that was handed down to me by two generations of cuemakers who will remain nameless.

"When building a cue, if the grain in the wood is straight, the cue will never warp. However, if there are bends and curves in the grain, the cue will probably warp in the same areas where those bends and curves are."

That won't help you straighten a cue, but may help you in the future when shopping for one.

Yup.
But, I won't say never though.

 

[instroke]

These are just hangers that are used for display purposes in Taiwan. They were not made to be cue straighteners. I don't know that hanging a cue will make it straighten out. A lot of cuemakers hang their shafts and a lot don't. I tend to think that unless there is some kind of other influence, such as steam or a lot more weight, then the rigidity of the cue will be stronger than the gravitational pull of the weight below the bend. I also tend to think that a certain amount of time would be required to get any effect. Lastly, if these things would work then what is to prevent the cue from re-warping when the weight of the cue is removed? Won't the wood try to return to it's "comfortable" state?

John

 

[Teddy Harris]

It is my opinion that cuemakers who dip (on stabilizer) their shafts after every pass, make shafts that are more susceptible to warpage when they go out of the shop.

So, what you saying is that cuemakers that go the extra mile to stabilize their shafts, are indeed the ones who are cutting corners? But the guy who does not go the extra mile is not cutting corners? He is, in fact going the extra mile by not going the extra mile?

 

[Joseph Cues]

So, what you saying is that cuemakers that go the extra mile to stabilize their shafts, are indeed the ones who are cutting corners? But the guy who does not go the extra mile is not cutting corners? He is, in fact going the extra mile by not going the extra mile?

Not at all.
What I am saying is when you keep dipping the shaft, you are trying to prevent it from warping.
Why not let it warp then dip on the third to the last pass?
Of course the reject ratio will be higher.

 

[Teddy Harris]

Not at all.
What I am saying is when you keep dipping the shaft, you are trying to prevent it from warping.
Why not let it warp then dip on the third to the last pass?
Of course the reject ratio will be higher.

When you say you, are you referring to me? I only dip mine twice, and I turn them 25 times. Is that good enough?
My only reason for posting a response to this is because there might actually be people out there that will misunderstand what you say.

 

[Joseph Cues]

When you say you, are you referring to me? I only dip mine twice, and I turn them 25 times. Is that good enough?
My only reason for posting a response to this is because there might actually be people out there that will misunderstand what you say.

Not at all.
I know a cuemaker in Vegas who dips his shafts while they're still rods and keep dipping them. That's why I wrote KEEP DIPPING EVERY PASS.
There's a famous cuemaker up in the boonies too whose shafts do not stay straight and he's famous for it.

 

[blud]

shafts again

Here's a secret that was handed down to me by two generations of cuemakers who will remain nameless.

"When building a cue, if the grain in the wood is straight, the cue will never warp. However, if there are bends and curves in the grain, the cue will probably warp in the same areas where those bends and curves are."




man old man,
I, have not a clue as to who the two cuemakers are, but it ain't true.

Quote,
IF THE GRAIN IN THE WOOD IS STRAIGHT, THE CUE WILL NEVER WARP. [This, friends, is bull shit].......sorry for that.......

Straight grain warps as do the others, not all, but they all will wrap. Straight grain is less apt to warp.

I have been in this bussiness for over 3 decades, and have seen straight grain go to hell and back.

Others talk about dipping and cutting so many times. Good for them.This is the way most quality cuemakers build there shafts. The wood today is for the most part, dryed in a vaccum kilm. Dryed too fast for my liking.
Suck all the moister out real fast and they think we have good wood. More bull crap.

Dipping wood when it's big is a waist of good material. I cut mine several times, and when the shaft becomes somewhat stable, [at around 14.75 mm at the ferrule end], I then start the dipping process. [ no need to waist the wood stablizer by dipping and then cutting it off. with each pass]....Let the shaft take it's course, then go to dipping, and continue dipping and cutting.

A good wood stablelizer will fill the wood cells with a solid. [ replaces the air, which is moister]...
By doing this the shaft can no longer take on much moister. That being said, the wood should stay straight. I dip them 4 to 5 times, and about 3 minutes each time..I then stop the dipping process, and then cut them once more and add the hardware, and cut for the last time, sand and prep for painting.

Today, some of the folks who process maple dowels, just cut wood. A good producer, will cut the flats into squares, [ 1'x1'] and if he starts to get run off, [grain that's not straight] he will adjust the lumber to be cut straight. Most do not do this because of the waist of wood involved, and or they are just lazy.

Now as cuemakers we pay out the ass for wood,, and buy 100 shafts, for about $10.00 each, and by the time were through, we yeild only about 50 to 60 shafts. Now they have a bare cost of about $20.00 each. then you cut them for 15 to 20 times [ much labor] and add the hardware, and guess what, you have a shaft that cost you about $175.00 labor and material,that you sell at a loss. Players of all levels [please do not take this wrong, because not all bitch], complain because of the cost of shafts. They expect perfectly white shafts.

White wood is not as good as the darker shafts we had many years ago. Ask your quality cuemakers of today about darker woods. However, the consumer wants a white shaft. What for, who knows?

If he only knew that the darker shafts have memmorie, and stay straight longer, and have the right guts, [denceity] to be a great shaft.

Several years ago,a production cuemaker caused this white shaft crap. He was having a tough time selling his crapy cues, so he came with yet another gimick........WHITE WOOD.....PLEASE!
Blud

 

[fxskater]

I have no expertise in this field at all so my comments can be taken with a grain of salt. Everything i have hear blud say on this forum before i have tried to verify with other cuemakers and, for the most part, everything he has said is on the up and up. He provides great information without needlessly tooting his own horn all the time. What he says here i have found very true in my own experience. I have a shaft for one of my cues that was not bought as a blank but actually made from scratch from a square piece of wood. It is a little bit more orange looking, but man oh man does it feel great. I have another shaft for the same cue that was made from a shaft blank which i think came from Tiger Products. It is a lighter whiter looking maple, the cue doesn't hit nearly as well. It doesnt quite have that nice stiff feel to it. I asked the guy that made the cue what the difference is, besides the color of course, and i think he said something about 'Sap Wood' type maple?

Blud could you tell me which would be the sap maple? the light one or the dark one? I assume the dark, but you know what they say about assumptions.

 

[blud]

thanks

I have no expertise in this field at all so my comments can be taken with a grain of salt. Everything i have hear blud say on this forum before i have tried to verify with other cuemakers and, for the most part, everything he has said is on the up and up. He provides great information without needlessly tooting his own horn all the time. What he says here i have found very true in my own experience. I have a shaft for one of my cues that was not bought as a blank but actually made from scratch from a square piece of wood. It is a little bit more orange looking, but man oh man does it feel great. I have another shaft for the same cue that was made from a shaft blank which i think came from Tiger Products. It is a lighter whiter looking maple, the cue doesn't hit nearly as well. It doesnt quite have that nice stiff feel to it. I asked the guy that made the cue what the difference is, besides the color of course, and i think he said something about 'Sap Wood' type maple?

Blud could you tell me which would be the sap maple? the light one or the dark one? I assume the dark, but you know what they say about assumptions.

Hey fxskater,
thanks so much for your comments. I do tell it like it is. If some cuemakers disagree, so be it. Everyhing I speak of, i have experance at. i do my best to be helpful to all you folks.

Sap wood,
it's the outter edge of the tree, just below the bark. It's normaly whiter or lighter in color as opposed to the darker heart wood. Now a days with the modern kilm's, the heart wood can have some or most of the draker grain drawn out of it with the drying process being used.

The darker wood is better for shafts. Some don't like me using the terms, [ the old days], [tough shit], never the less, in those old days, we would always grab the darkest looking cue of the wall. It was sound, straight, good memmorie, had many many growth rings, and was very solid, meaning that it was pretty darn, dence.

These cues were even slick. Yes, slick. No need to sand or polish these baby's. When you hit a ball, you could feel it, even if it was a super soft shot, and or a hard draw shot. The tip type didn't seem to matter as long as it was the proper shape. The ferrule was fiber for the most part.

When a few of us got where we could afford a two piece cue, [custom] we had ivory ferrules, because this is what the world champions were using. They were at that time in history, as now, the choice of many world champions, past and present. My choice also...not a world champion, but know what plays best on my cues, and know what, I like..

WOODS
You hear it all the time, and it's true, [wood just ain't like it used to be].
Wood today in my opinion, is processed to fast....and cut down before it's time. rush, rush, and get the money. Please!

I buy most of my shaft wood out of Canada. It's old growth, tight grained, [ many growth rings] and was raised in very cold winters, with the proper amount of water under ground. Works for me..
Blud

 

[LastTwo]

A few different cuemakers I know ( Joe Porper and Ernie Gutierrez) say you can straighten just about any shaft by soaking it and hanging it upside down, perfectly straight towards the ground. It does weaken the wood, however, and change the hit dramatically. You are better off getting a new shaft.

Also, if you ever buy a cue that is mass-produced, i.e. McDermott, etc, usually the shafts are not that good quality. The shafts come with a coating on them, that keeps the moisture inside. If you ever sand down the shaft, or get it tapered, you will remove the coating, and the moisture will come out, and the shaft will warp. Try to find a shaft where the wood is pretty dry, and the grain is very fine and dark, with no knots or rings in it.

Hope this helps.

 

[blud]

finish

A few different cuemakers I know ( Joe Porper and Ernie Gutierrez) say you can straighten just about any shaft by soaking it and hanging it upside down, perfectly straight towards the ground. It does weaken the wood, however, and change the hit dramatically. You are better off getting a new shaft.

Also, if you ever buy a cue that is mass-produced, i.e. McDermott, etc, usually the shafts are not that good quality. The shafts come with a coating on them, that keeps the moisture inside. If you ever sand down the shaft, or get it tapered, you will remove the coating, and the moisture will come out, and the shaft will warp. Try to find a shaft where the wood is pretty dry, and the grain is very fine and dark, with no knots or rings in it.

Hope this helps.

Last two,

Never heard of this before now. We, as cuemakers try our best to keep moisture "OUT" of the shaft, not hold it in. The finish your speaking of, is just a finish to keep the shaft clean and smooth.
The shaft wood when we receive it has an average of 6-1/2 to 7% moisture content. This is not to bad, and with the wood hanging and air dryed for several month's, this is about average for the states.
We all do our best to "KEEP MOISTURE OUT", of cues, not keep it in.
I apply a finish to the shaft that soaks into the wood. This helps to keep the moisture out and keeps warpage down.
blud

 

[Jon]

Last two,

Never heard of this before now. We, as cuemakers try our best to keep moisture "OUT" of the shaft, not hold it in. The finish your speaking of, is just a finish to keep the shaft clean and smooth.
The shaft wood when we receive it has an average of 6-1/2 to 7% moisture content. This is not to bad, and with the wood hanging and air dryed for several month's, this is about average for the states.
We all do our best to "KEEP MOISTURE OUT", of cues, not keep it in.
I apply a finish to the shaft that soaks into the wood. This helps to keep the moisture out and keeps warpage down.
blud

Blud,

What would you say, is the average run out for a finished shaft from a "reputable" cue maker??? I've seen some that looked straight when rolled, but would have 1/8" run out on a lathe. I've had some "ready-for-final-sand" shaft blanks (oversized, around 14mm, with a strong taper) that I hand sanded down that at first had quite a bit of run out (around .075-.100") and after sanding, the run out was barely noticeable on the late, running at 1550 rpm. I was just wondering what the average is; there is really no such thing as a 100% perfectly straight shaft... (Is there?)

Thanks,

Jon

 

[Wally in Cincy]

......, if you ever buy a cue that is mass-produced, i.e. McDermott, etc, usually the shafts are not that good quality. The shafts come with a coating on them, that keeps the moisture inside. If you ever sand down the shaft, or get it tapered, you will remove the coating, and the moisture will come out, and the shaft will warp. ....

FWIW ... I have 4 McDermott shafts of varying ages with nary a warp amongst them.

 

[LastTwo]

Last two,

Never heard of this before now. We, as cuemakers try our best to keep moisture "OUT" of the shaft, not hold it in. The finish your speaking of, is just a finish to keep the shaft clean and smooth.
The shaft wood when we receive it has an average of 6-1/2 to 7% moisture content. This is not to bad, and with the wood hanging and air dryed for several month's, this is about average for the states.
We all do our best to "KEEP MOISTURE OUT", of cues, not keep it in.
I apply a finish to the shaft that soaks into the wood. This helps to keep the moisture out and keeps warpage down.
blud

Whoops...I meant that the moisture is not kept in the shaft intentionally, most mass produced cues the wood is not dried very well. The finish is just to keep the shaft clean and smooth, but for the lower quality shafts, it traps the moisture inside as a side effect.

 

[Purdman]

McDermott

FWIW ... I have 4 McDermott shafts of varying ages with nary a warp amongst them.

I have a brand new one I bought in 99. Went south in a week. Still got it. New cue. Gonna have a new shaft made for it. It is a JL03, the Jennett Lee signature model without the signature. Purchased right after they dumped her.
Don P.