Define “CUSTOM” Cue

[azbicyclis85376]

Was having this discussion the other night with a friend. My definition of "CUSTOM CUE" is from a maker who does all or almost all the work their themselves. But could have an Apprentice, or Helper who is closely supervised. Maybe produce 100-125 Cue per year.

I think when more than one person is involved in a small scale manufacturing it is Semi Custom 200ish per year, and when it is like a Mucci, Lucas, or it is just a Production Cue.

But not true custom.

 

[WilleeCue]

Was having this discussion the other night with a friend.

Now you have picked a very hot topic that has been kicked around for a long time. Here is ny opinion on the subject and please remember it is just my opinion and subject to change.

Production cues are made in numbers of three or more and are all the same design.
One looks much like the other except for the weight and sometimes the tip size.
Very little changes from one cue run to the next.
They are made in batches and several people may be involved in their construction.
These are the cues you see offered in a curmakers catalog to anyone that sends in the money.

Most custom cues are made one at a time by one cuemaker, however, others may be involved in its construction.
The cue is most likely made for someone to his specs and preferences but that is not a hard fast rule as a cuemaker may make a cue on speculation without having a buyer waiting for it.
If only one or two cues are made that look the same ... then they most likely fall into the catagory of a custom cue.

South West is considered a custom cue but several people build those cues and several are exactly alike. However each one is built to the specs of the person that ordered it. Their waiting list is about 6 years.

I am sure this does not really answer your question but it is my best effort.

What did your friend think defined a custom cue?

 

[azbicyclis85376]

What did your friend think defined a custom cue?

He has a Mucci that is 1 of 300 or something, and thinks it is the Kats Pajamas, but I am sure it was made by many hand, in a production situation.

 

[drivermaker]

Most custom cues are made one at a time by one cuemaker, however, others may be involved in its construction.
The cue is most likely made for someone to his specs and preferences but that is not a hard fast rule as a cuemaker may make a cue on speculation without having a buyer waiting for it.

So, wouldn't the true definition of this scenario be a "spec" cue, made by a custom cuemaker. Or, a one of a kind production cue made by a custom cuemaker? Now, I'm sure whoever purchases the cue wouldn't want to refer to it that way since everyone wants exclusivity, but in the strict definition of custom, that's really what it is. However only the buyer and cuemaker would know the truth.

 

[WilleeCue]

So, wouldn't the true definition of this scenario be a "spec" cue, made by a custom cuemaker. Or, a one of a kind production cue made by a custom cuemaker? Now, I'm sure whoever purchases the cue wouldn't want to refer to it that way since everyone wants exclusivity, but in the strict definition of custom, that's really what it is. However only the buyer and cuemaker would know the truth.

I dont know, DM, but I am starting to think there is no "strict definition" that everyone would agree to. I think you are right, but almost everyone would call that cue a "custom".

 

[drivermaker]

I dont know, DM, but I am starting to think there is no "strict definition" that everyone would agree to. I think you are right, but almost everyone would call that cue a "custom".

Then I guess the same would apply to an one of a kind "Unique" classification Schon cue, right? Maybe even moreso if it was weighted perfectly to the buyer's request.

 

[WilleeCue]

Then I guess the same would apply to an one of a kind "Unique" classification Schon cue, right? Maybe even moreso if it was weighted perfectly to the buyer's request.

Well ... sure ... a production cuemaker can make a custom one off cue.
I think most of them will do it.
Just because it is a Schon dont mean it has to be a production cue.
That is what makes it so hard to assign hard fast rules to what is and what isnt a "custom" cue.
Is changing a tip and ferrule on a production cue classified as "customizing" it?

Can we use other industrys as an example?
Ford made a "custom" line of autos.
Hot rodders "customize" their cars.
Bikers "customize" their rides.
Apartments can be "customized".

OK ... now my head is spinning so I will stop.

 

[hadjcues]

The word custom seems to take a more complex meaning when it comes to cues. Basing it on what Willee mentioned and say taking a custom shoe for example, it's made in accordance with the customers specs. Same thing goes for custom cars where engine, paint or other things can be customized to what the customer wants or needs.

As for cues, a custom cuemaker should be able to produce a cue in accordance with the customers specs. Be it taper, wrap or whatever. As for how much a customer can customize his cue, is where I believe the confusion is. A cuemaker comes up with his own shaft taper, does the math and everything and believes this is the taper appropiate for his cues. Now a customer prefers a taper which is different from that of the cuemaker, now this is a problem that has to be resolved by both parties. Same thing goes for other specs like pins, joint material and a lot more.

Customers too should realize that cuemaking, cue specs and design are part of the cuemaker's signature, knowledge and personality and I know that at times, certain things are hard to change or alter specially those specs that we as cuemakers believe, tried and tested - works!

As for cues that a cuemaker makes and sells and without any customer specs alteration - custom or production? In which case, these are made to the cuemaker's specs - would it be safe to say CUSTOM LINE of CUES by ___________?

What if there are copies made of it by the CM - I'd rather call it LIMITED EDITION CUES

My head's spinning now

 

[drivermaker]

Is changing a tip and ferrule on a production cue classified as "customizing" it?

No, I don't think it's customizing it any more than changing the wiper blades or tires on your car. Those parts are subject to change sooner or later due to wear or breakage. However, changing the basic integrity of the original main frame of the cue would be customizing it, such as the joint, joint material, adding stain or inlays. I also think adding leather instead of irish linen would qualify after the cue was purchased and owned.

 

[blud]

either or both

I don't really think it makes much differance, custom or production, provided either play well.

It's just like some of the "cuemakers" out here today, call themselves "cuemakers".PLEASE........

Not many real cuemakers out there. These are the ones who can play and transfer that ability into building good cues.

Then you got the guys who copy, and don't do a good job at that either.

How can you build a good cue, if you can't play???????????????

There are only a few real "CUEMAKERS" out there that have my respect. Please don't ask me to name them. They know who's who?

blud

 

[paul fanelli]

custom cues

Any cue made by order for an individual is IMO a custom cue. It really doesn't matter whether it was made by a single cuemaker, or a production shop, if it was made to the order of an individual customer. Customer input is involved with the process, be it desigining the total cue, or just suggesting to the cuemaker what woods you like, leaving the rest to him. Most players are proud of their custom cues, and enjoy the feeling that their cue was made for them alone. But cues of the non-custom type, made by the cuemaker for nobody in particular, reflect more directly on the ability of the cuemaker, since they are made to please the cuemaker himself. These cues also offer the customer the chance to use the cue prior to buying, unlike a custom ordered cue. If you are buying a cue to play pool with, that is a distinct advantage. Just my opinion.

 

[WilleeCue]

How can you build a good cue, if you can't play???????????????
blud

That is an interesting question, Blud.

I know there are cuemakers who are regarded as tops in their craft but who dont really play pool at much more than average level.
South West is one that comes to mind.
If a pro player does not like the way a Bludworth cue plays does that mean it is not a good cue?
I think not as we all know that Bludworth cues are excellent cues.
The fact that the cuemaker can also play well is plus if you like the same type and feel as he does and a disadvantage if you do not.
George Balabushka was not known as a great player nor was Frank Paradise but both possesed the skills to make cues that felt good to them.

So I guess my opinion on that question is that even if a person can not play pool well he can still possess the skills needed to make a cue that feels good to him and others of more advanced playing abailitys. The two skills can be related but I dont think being a good player is a prerequsite to making a good cue.

 

[drivermaker]

So I guess my opinion on that question is that even if a person can not play pool well he can still possess the shills needed to make a cue that feels good to him and others of more advanced playing abailitys.

That's not worded correctly Willee. It should be, "So I guess my opinion on that question is that even if a person can not play pool well he can still possess the shills needed to HYPE a cue that feels good to him and others of more advanced playing abailitys. (sp)

 

[WilleeCue]

That's not worded correctly Willee. It should be, "So I guess my opinion on that question is that even if a person can not play pool well he can still possess the shills needed to HYPE a cue that feels good to him and others of more advanced playing abailitys. (sp)

Thank you DM for pointing out my error.
It has been corrected to read what I intended to say.

 

[classiccues]

It's just like some of the "cuemakers" out here today, call themselves "cuemakers".PLEASE........
blud

I hear that.. I hope some other tool is listening...

How can you build a good cue, if you can't play???????????????

How well does a cuemaker need to play to build a good cue? How good of a machinist or wood worker does a cuemaker need to be to build a good cue?

I am curious to your thoughts here...

Joe

 

[cardiac kid]

Just because it is a Schon dont mean it has to be a production cue. That is what makes it so hard to assign hard fast rules to what is and what isnt a "custom" cue.

WilleeCue,

That was the point of one of my posts a month or two ago. Someone asked about buying a modestly priced cue. From past experience, I suggested Schon. Most other posters disagreed and told the person to buy "custom". My question was, what made a "custom" cue better. I received no posts attempting to answer my question. I feel the question is valid. My friend Mike Sigel played with a Meucci and was World Champ. He went to work for Joss and was again World Champ. I'm sure if you put a good house cue in his hands years ago, he would have won anyway. Earl and Allison play with very modestly priced Cuetec Cues. It's the player, not the cue! Its what you get used to. How many other people can you stand to have a cue that looks just like yours? If the answer is none, have one "custom" made to your spec's!

 

[bandido]

WilleeCue,

That was the point of one of my posts a month or two ago. Someone asked about buying a modestly priced cue. From past experience, I suggested Schon. Most other posters disagreed and told the person to buy "custom". My question was, what made a "custom" cue better. I received no posts attempting to answer my question. I feel the question is valid. My friend Mike Sigel played with a Meucci and was World Champ. He went to work for Joss and was again World Champ. I'm sure if you put a good house cue in his hands years ago, he would have won anyway. Earl and Allison play with very modestly priced Cuetec Cues. It's the player, not the cue! Its what you get used to. How many other people can you stand to have a cue that looks just like yours? If the answer is none, have one "custom" made to your spec's!

Sorry CK, but you have to ask your friend Mike how his cue selection process at these companies worked. I don't think that they are the off-the-shelf variety nor are Allison's and Earl's.
Edwin Reyes

 

[Muxy]

the cues earl and allison are suited for the game play there needs there likes, take johnny he doesnt shoot with the 100$ scorpian right off the shelf its made to his needs.

 

[cardiac kid]

Sorry CK, but you have to ask your friend Mike how his cue selection process at these companies worked. I don't think that they are the off-the-shelf variety nor are Allison's and Earl's.
Edwin Reyes

Hi Edwin,

I've played with the "Greek Column" Meucci cue that Mike left at his parents house here in Rochester years ago. It played exactly like the one I owned at the time. Mike started with a steel jointed cue. He gained sponsorship from Meucci and changed to one of the first "plastic" jointed cues. Danny and Bill then sponsored him and he changed back to a steel jointed cue and continued to win. If you had given him one of the current design threaded pin into wood joint cues years ago, I'm sure he'd still have won. He would just have gone back to the practice table and worked out the kinks.

I don't question the incredible amount of skill a cuemaker uses to create. I only ask why it hits better than a quality production cue of like design. I can change weight bolt, wrap, threaded pin material, joint insert, tip, ferrule material and the overall balance after a cue is manufactured. If I ask for those changes to a standard cue before its manufactured, does that make it a custom cue? Does a $500 sneaky pete from a top custom cue maker hit better than the same materials combination with lots of sterling silver, ivory and a leather wrap for $5000? That is another question. Again, how many other people with the same appearing cue are you willing to accept?

 

[azbicyclis85376]

the cues earl and allison are suited for the game play there needs there likes, take johnny he doesnt shoot with the 100$ scorpian right off the shelf its made to his needs.

Your observation is correct, as an example it appears Lance Armstrong rode TREK Bicycle to victory in The Tour. Truth be know Lance had many TREKS set up differently for conditions, hills, etc.

Plus several years ago when Lance was riding his Time Trails in the Tour. It appeared Lance was riding a U.S. Postal Service TRAK. It was actually a LightSpeed Blade (special time trail bike) painted with the TREK/US POSTAL LOGO etc.

When someone says to me some pro anything is using a Such & Such Brand, they probably are. But it is tuned, and tweaked for them personally, to their specification. Plus I am sure given a little more TLC in production at the factory that the Joe public model.

Think many of the Pool Pros would play with Custom Makers Cues, but the financial rewards are just to much money to pass up when you can play with a Viking, CueTech, or ?, and get paid for using that Cue.