Even points

[7stud]

How close are the points on your cues to being even?

 

[cueman]

Your 1mm on four points would almost be undetectable to most eyes so you poll does not work very well. If you used a centimeter as the measurement you might get some honest answers.

 

[Ssonerai]

Keep in mind i'm an amateur cue builder with somewhat more than a dozen FS blanks in a half dozen/8 years.
About half 4 point, the others 6 point. No veneers yet.
I have aimed for less than 3/32" as turned on 4 point. (& usually do better, but that is where i am not satisfied/will start dicking around moving center at one or other of the other ends)
The 6's are difficult - a smidgeon of sanding on a long slender 6 point will move a point "quite a bit" so have learned to accept about 1/8" as turned. But the fact of how easy it is to accidently move a point, means they can be sanded quite close without changing roundness, and certainly no effect on taper.

Then you get down to what Chris mentions: even with a pencil line drawn while turning the cue by hand on the lathe, it is really, really difficult to decide, in some cases, whether the point is short or long when looking for 1mm. You might think you can call it, but if epoxy was used for glue up, that final line is a bit "adjustable" even when the point appears quite sharp. If there is one sharp point in the bunch and the direct opposite side is short, you know you are off even at 1mm. If there is only one point that appears a "little off" it might not be the points, it might well be the sanding up to that (ahem) point.

To put it in perspective, you are looking at a wood point, that may only change .001" thickness in 1/16" length at that point. (OKAY, sometime when i'm bored, will actually calculate it. Above is a SWAG). But bear with me: every 1/2 thousandth inch you sand in thickness moves any given point at least 1/32" length.

To answer the question from the customer's (ahem, again) point of view, if you make good splices and realize that when turning between centers, *BOTH* ends of the blank need to be dialed in, it is easy to hit 1/8" while turning, that can be refined to much closer, and sanding can put it to within 1mm, where Chris's law of cue observation kicks in.



Of course professionals doing this over a lifetime probably do better. But at some point you are limited by materials, in any substance or field of endeavor. It's going to be easier to get true sharp uniform points with fine grained wood like ebony, and glue will mask more; than perhaps with really coarse grained wood like Wenge. Though any dark wood still gets an assist from epoxy glue.

smt

 

[thoffen]

Honestly I think the points being dead even is overblown. A much more challenging task for a full splice cue. Being as the difference is only cosmetic, I would only care as a customer if it were obvious to the eye without any measuring method.

 

[Ssonerai]

T - i like your practical minded post.

However:

.....if it were obvious to the eye without any measuring method.

Rotate many cues in your hands, in various lights, and see if sometimes the point looks long, then short, then long as the cue is rotated. Maybe even more so with 6 slender points. Though that is why many simply make hi-lo point cues. Makes it easier, and avoids the optical illusion. I personally can't shoot with a hi-lo point cue, it distracts and messes with my eyes.

(Then again at current level of play i need any excuse i can get)

OTOH from an esthetic standpoint, 6 or 8 even length points is pretty "busy".

smt

 

[thoffen]

T - i like your practical minded post.

However:



Rotate many cues in your hands, in various lights, and see if sometimes the point looks long, then short, then long as the cue is rotated. Maybe even more so with 6 slender points. Though that is why many simply make hi-lo point cues. Makes it easier, and avoids the optical illusion. I personally can't shoot with a hi-lo point cue, it distracts and messes with my eyes.

(Then again at current level of play i need any excuse i can get)

OTOH from an esthetic standpoint, 6 or 8 even length points is pretty "busy".

smt

Well I think that's where the word "obvious" comes in. If you're in the territory of possibly tricking yourself into seeing something that's not there, then you're certainly in the territory of the points being even enough IMO.

 

[7stud]

Honestly I think the points being dead even is overblown. A much more challenging task for a full splice cue. Being as the difference is only cosmetic, I would only care as a customer if it were obvious to the eye without any measuring method.

I can easily see a 1mm difference in the points. When I bought my first cue with points, which was made by a cuemaker of the year, I was really surprised the points weren't dead even--they were within 1mm of dead even, though. I had seen a video online where the cuemaker stated that he doesn't send out cues that aren't perfect, blah, blah, blah; and yet I could tell the points were uneven just by looking at them, and the cue also had what I would consider severe bleeding in the veneers. In addition, I recently saw some pictures of a cue from an unhappy, first time custom cue buyer made by another big name cuemaker, and the cue had uneven points and bleeding veneers. The buyer was sorely disappointed, and he swore off ever buying another custom cue, and he lamented the fact that he didn't buy the $1,200 Predator cue that he had been considering.

The reason I started this poll is because I thought it might serve to educate and possibly reduce the expectations of ignorant customers like me. It would be helpful for buyers to know what to expect when buying a custom cue.

Thanks for the discussion.

 

[thoffen]

I can easily see a 1mm difference in the points. When I bought my first cue with points, which was made by a cuemaker of the year, I was really surprised the points weren't dead even--they were within 1mm of dead even, though. I had seen a video online where the cuemaker stated that he doesn't send out cues that aren't perfect, blah, blah, blah; and yet I could tell the points were uneven just by looking at them, and the cue also had what I would consider severe bleeding in the veneers. In addition, I recently saw some pictures of a cue from an unhappy, first time custom cue buyer made by another big name cuemaker, and the cue had uneven points and bleeding veneers. The buyer was sorely disappointed, and he swore off ever buying another custom cue, and he lamented the fact that he didn't buy the $1,200 Predator cue that he had been considering.

The reason I started this poll is because I thought it might serve to educate and possibly reduce the expectations of ignorant customers like me. It would be helpful for buyers to know what to expect when buying a custom cue.

Thanks for the discussion.

Bleeding of the veneers is a whole other issue. I am a bit skeptical that a 1mm difference would be noticeable without measurement. It'd be a very interesting thing to make cues with a variety of different offsets in points and give them to people to have them look at and estimate their perceived offset, but I doubt we'd get that data.

What did your cue maker say when you contacted him about the points?

 

[Michael Webb]

Interesting thread. I'm enjoying the read.
Thank you

 

[Mcues]

Most of us strive for perfection and settle within our own set standards.