eye dominance & unintended english

[northman]

Hello all, I am trying to get serious about pool for the first time, after screwing around on and off for a number of years.

When i line up a shot and position the cue tip for what looks like a center ball hit, I am actually putting a little right english on the cueball. To get a true center hit, I have to consciously move the tip (as it appears to my eyes) to the left maybe 1/4 cue tip. I then can stroke a much truer shot.

I can verify this if I close my right eye while down on the shot, and position the tip for a center hit. When I open both eyes the tip appears to be shifted slightly to the left.

I am left handed, left eye dominant, and position my head such that my chin is to the right of the cue, which should put my dominant eye over the stick.

At first I ignored this effect, and I would consistently miss a long straight in shot to the right, with the cueball moving to the left. I contend that with the unintentional right english the cueball swerves to the left, causing the problems. I am able to get a fairly consistent shot like this anyway with the correct speed and a little follow (guessing the swerve and the throw counter each other), but as soon as I try a harder stun or draw shot the wheels come off and I miss badly.

So my question is, do any of you make a similar correction for eyesight, either consciously or not? If so, what have you found to either help or cope with the phenomenon? Do glasses affect this at all? (I have never worn glasses, but I do have a slight astigmatism)

Thanks for the help.


Northman

 

[MFB]

Hello all, I am trying to get serious about pool for the first time, after screwing around on and off for a number of years.

When i line up a shot and position the cue tip for what looks like a center ball hit, I am actually putting a little right english on the cueball. To get a true center hit, I have to consciously move the tip (as it appears to my eyes) to the left maybe 1/4 cue tip. I then can stroke a much truer shot.

I can verify this if I close my right eye while down on the shot, and position the tip for a center hit. When I open both eyes the tip appears to be shifted slightly to the left.

I am left handed, left eye dominant, and position my head such that my chin is to the right of the cue, which should put my dominant eye over the stick.

At first I ignored this effect, and I would consistently miss a long straight in shot to the right, with the cueball moving to the left. I contend that with the unintentional right english the cueball swerves to the left, causing the problems. I am able to get a fairly consistent shot like this anyway with the correct speed and a little follow (guessing the swerve and the throw counter each other), but as soon as I try a harder stun or draw shot the wheels come off and I miss badly.

So my question is, do any of you make a similar correction for eyesight, either consciously or not? If so, what have you found to either help or cope with the phenomenon? Do glasses affect this at all? (I have never worn glasses, but I do have a slight astigmatism)

Thanks for the help.


Northman

Wow. I could have written the above paragraph. I am left eye dominant and right handed. I have an astigmatism and wear glasses. The glasses won't correct my vision in my weaker eye (right), but does take some strain off of the left.

My pool playing can be sporadic. I believe my brain kinda makes up for what my right eye should be seeing, and this is when I start missing shots

I do not make any correction. Only that if I am struggling I will try to close my right eye (weaker) to be sure that it's my leeft eye (dominant) that is doing the aiming.

I feel your pain.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Hello all, I am trying to get serious about pool for the first time, after screwing around on and off for a number of years.

When i line up a shot and position the cue tip for what looks like a center ball hit, I am actually putting a little right english on the cueball. To get a true center hit, I have to consciously move the tip (as it appears to my eyes) to the left maybe 1/4 cue tip. I then can stroke a much truer shot.

I can verify this if I close my right eye while down on the shot, and position the tip for a center hit. When I open both eyes the tip appears to be shifted slightly to the left.

I am left handed, left eye dominant, and position my head such that my chin is to the right of the cue, which should put my dominant eye over the stick.

At first I ignored this effect, and I would consistently miss a long straight in shot to the right, with the cueball moving to the left. I contend that with the unintentional right english the cueball swerves to the left, causing the problems. I am able to get a fairly consistent shot like this anyway with the correct speed and a little follow (guessing the swerve and the throw counter each other), but as soon as I try a harder stun or draw shot the wheels come off and I miss badly.

So my question is, do any of you make a similar correction for eyesight, either consciously or not? If so, what have you found to either help or cope with the phenomenon? Do glasses affect this at all? (I have never worn glasses, but I do have a slight astigmatism)

Thanks for the help.


Northman

Well, first and foremost, there's no such thing as an unconscious correction. Corrections are always conscious. Secondly, left-eye dominance is unusal, even among left-handed people. However, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. You're the mirror image of most right-handed players (most of which are also right-eye dominant). With that said, I would suggest seeking out a right-handed instructor who will probably be right-eye dominant.

Personally, I'm right-handed and left-eye dominant (as unusual as it gets) and have always taught people to center themselves, no matter what their dominant eye may be. Even though pool may be relatively new to human beings, hand-eye coordination is something that has been worked into our genetic code for eons. In my opinion, you should never make any sort of conscious correction whatsoever. Understand that some players may have their chin directly above their cue while others have it slightly to the side. In the end, it always looks centered to the shooter.

What may be happening is that you're not standing directly behind the cue-ball as you get down on your shot and may be making an angular correction once in your stance. While standing straight, center yourself behind the cue-ball in the direction you wish to shoot. Be specific. Use the contact point (or objective path) to determine exactly where you need to be. Decide how you will address the cue-ball (spin, speed). Then and only then should you begin to enter your stance. You should always look at the ball from a centered perspective and allow your subconscious to make any needed adjustments.

The fact is, we spend countless hours dreaming about pool, watching pool and playing pool. Anyone who has been around the game for a short while can watch another person play and know whether a ball will go in or not before the cue-ball reaches the contact point. Subconsciously, we've already learned every possible angle. The objective, as a shooter, is to allow your subconscious to make the necessary calculations. This means letting go and always approaching a shot with what feels right.


I hope this helps. Let me know how things go.

 

[recoveryjones]

Hello all, I am trying to get serious about pool for the first time, after screwing around on and off for a number of years.

When i line up a shot and position the cue tip for what looks like a center ball hit, I am actually putting a little right english on the cueball. To get a true center hit, I have to consciously move the tip (as it appears to my eyes) to the left maybe 1/4 cue tip. I then can stroke a much truer shot.


Thanks for the help.


Northman

Professional pool player Tony Robles has the same problem.Go to this link:
http://www.greatpool.com/technique.htm
and scroll down until you get to the catergory "Emulate with Caution"RJ

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Wow. I could have written the above paragraph. I am left eye dominant and right handed. I have an astigmatism and wear glasses. The glasses won't correct my vision in my weaker eye (right), but does take some strain off of the left.

My pool playing can be sporadic. I believe my brain kinda makes up for what my right eye should be seeing, and this is when I start missing shots

I do not make any correction. Only that if I am struggling I will try to close my right eye (weaker) to be sure that it's my leeft eye (dominant) that is doing the aiming.

I feel your pain.

I'm right-handed and left-eye dominant and have an astigmatism in both eyes with a contact lens correction of -4.5 and, like you, my right eye is weaker than my left. I'm also an A player. NEVER close your right eye when shooting. The underlying problem with this is the brain uses both eyes to process information. Using both eyes is critical in depth perception, even if you have a weaker eye. By closing one eye, the object ball will lose its three-dimensional image which is critical in ascertaining the contact point.

The fact is, most people have a weaker eye and MANY great pool players lack perfect vision. Prior to Tony Robles' eye surgery, his vision was no better than 20/25 to 20/30. Even though he didn't win his first major event until after his operation, he credits his strategical and mental approach to the game. He considers himself a more mature player, NOT a player with better vision.

To prove this point, I went so far as to play a set without any corrective lenses. Even though there was a drop in my accuracy, I still maintained competence and was able to run a few racks in the set. Sound mechanics, a confident approach and intuitive strategy are the ingredients for success in pool. Perfect vision is nice but not necessary.

 

[northman]

Professional pool player Tony Robles has the same problem.Go to this link:
http://www.greatpool.com/technique.htm
and scroll down until you get to the catergory "Emulate with Caution"RJ

Wow,that's it exactly. Well, at least I know that I can't us that as an excuse for not acheiving pro-caliber play. Have to start blaming it on the beer again.


Northman

 

[MFB]

I'm right-handed and left-eye dominant and have an astigmatism in both eyes with a contact lens correction of -4.5 and, like you, my right eye is weaker than my left. I'm also an A player. NEVER close your right eye when shooting. The underlying problem with this is the brain uses both eyes to process information. Using both eyes is critical in depth perception, even if you have a weaker eye. By closing one eye, the object ball will lose its three-dimensional image which is critical in ascertaining the contact point......

Jude, I didn't mean to imply that I play with one eye closed. I just blink the weaker eye (when I am struggling) and it seems to help my pea brain line up the shot. I don't say I understand it, nor do I want to understand it I just know it works for me.

 

[CaptainJR]

Northman
I'm not sure what to tell you except that I'm aware that this can be a problem. In most sports it is advantageous to be opposite handed as eyed. I'm left handed and right eyed. I'll only say this particular sentence once because if someone ask me to try this I'd laugh in their face. Have you tried to shoot right handed?

At this point I'll assume you have said yes and that you can't do it. I know that I can't.

Your not the first lefty I've talked to about this. You know how lefties notice other lefties right away "hey, your a south paw too". One lefty I know pretty well is a pretty good pool shooter. It looks like he is going to break his neck almost when he is over the ball. He says he has to get his left eye closer to the cue ball than his right eye or he can't see it right. I think this might be more important than moving it left or right. Get it closer to the cue ball.

They say that the large majority of great baseball hitters were opposite handed as eyed. The reason being that there dominant eye was closer to the ball.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Professional pool player Tony Robles has the same problem.Go to this link:
http://www.greatpool.com/technique.htm
and scroll down until you get to the catergory "Emulate with Caution"RJ

I wish I knew who the author of that site is. I'll talk to Tony about it today (he's the housepro at my homeroom). I think what is meant by that quote is that after Tony positions himself for a center-ball hit, if he were to examine exactly where he's aiming to hit the cue-ball, it would appear he was aiming a bit to the side. Trust me on this, if Tony's hand-eye coordination were off by 1/4" from a 1.5', he would have a problem pressing an elevator button!

Tony is a very deliberate player and extremely conscious of everything that goes into a shot at times. However, I've also seen him free-stroke which is truly a sight to see. When he allows his subconscious to take-over, I don't believe there's a player in the world that can beat him.

 

[Rodney]

In order for me to make a long straight in shot I have to aim what appears to be about 1/4 inch off center to make the ball. I am right handed, and left eye dominant. Currently I do not need glasses. It took me a long time to adjust for this, and sometimes it is just a guess at how far off to aim. I dont think i'm an A player, but my high run in straight pool is 72.

Rod

 

[ceebee]

go to www.joetucker.net for some aiming help.

Joe is a great teacher & he has some great products to help you learn how to aim or how to "fine tune" your aim...

 

[jaz]

I'm right-handed and left-eye dominant and have an astigmatism in both eyes with a contact lens correction of -4.5 and, like you, my right eye is weaker than my left.

To prove this point, I went so far as to play a set without any corrective lenses. Even though there was a drop in my accuracy, I still maintained competence and was able to run a few racks in the set. Sound mechanics, a confident approach and intuitive strategy are the ingredients for success in pool. Perfect vision is nice but not necessary.

I've got similar problems with my eyes, Farsighted in my left eye (with an astigmatism) and near sighted in my right eye (no astigmatism) also left eye dominant and right handed.

I got contacts a couple of years ago to assist with the problems and try to improve both my golf and pool games, I can't stand wearing glasses. After a lot of trouble with the contact for my left eye moving while down on a shot, I finally gave up and play now with only my right contact in to give me a similar look to the table from both eyes.

I haven't thought about the visual complications of being opposite eye dominant, but it may explain why I miss some fairly easy shots when I don't bear down on them (at least it sounds good to me...). I think I'm going to try the suggestion above ("Emulate with Caution!) and see if there's a difference for me.

jaz

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

They say that the large majority of great baseball hitters were opposite handed as eyed. The reason being that there dominant eye was closer to the ball.

I heard the exact same thing. They use this bit of info to justify why the greatest hitters of all-time were always left-handed since most people (lefty or righty) are right-eye dominant. They failed to mention that another advantage to being lefty is that there aren't many left-handed pitchers to bat against.

I can say that when I did play ball, I could never hit from the left-side unless I completely opened up so that it looked like I was ready to pull the ball into the seats behind first base.

 

[recoveryjones]

I wish I knew who the author of that site is.

Apparentley the author of that site states that he went to Predator Pro Pool School and Tony who was one of the instructors who personally told him this eye optical illusion stuff.

Has Tony's eye surgery corrected the need for him to make alterations in his cue ball center sighting. Can he now (after surgery) see the true center of the cue ball? Ask him please and let us know, because I tend to apply a tad of right myself when I think I'm lining up at center, so I too compensate by moving my cue a tad to the left when doing those up and down the table straight stroke tests.Any commentary after talking to Tony is much appreciated. RJ

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I've got similar problems with my eyes, Farsighted in my left eye (with an astigmatism) and near sighted in my right eye (no astigmatism) also left eye dominant and right handed.

I got contacts a couple of years ago to assist with the problems and try to improve both my golf and pool games, I can't stand wearing glasses. After a lot of trouble with the contact for my left eye moving while down on a shot, I finally gave up and play now with only my right contact in to give me a similar look to the table from both eyes.

I haven't thought about the visual complications of being opposite eye dominant, but it may explain why I miss some fairly easy shots when I don't bear down on them (at least it sounds good to me...). I think I'm going to try the suggestion above ("Emulate with Caution!) and see if there's a difference for me.

jaz

Well, I can't even play with glasses unless I've been wearing them for a week. This is part of the reason why I feel I know so much about hand-eye coordination and lens corrections, as well. With the exception of the occasional off-day, I wear contacts daily and only wear my glasses for a brief time prior to going to bed. On those occasional off-days when I'm wearing glasses, I can't play pool because I simply haven't given my brain enough time to make the necessary adjustments. Even though everything appears sharp, since the correction is now a half-inch away from my eyes, the image is slightly smaller and curved. The brain will eventually recognize this and make the corrections on its own but it's odd for the first few days. The table simply doesn't look flat when I'm shooting.

The best thing to do is to try and play with the same thing you typically wear. If you wear glasses all the time, you should play with glasses. If it's contacts you wear, DEFINATELY use them when shooting. The reason why I stress this is that I find it's much more difficult to go from contacts to glasses than it is reversed.

If you're dead-set on wearing contacts and serious about it, I would suggest talking to your optomitrist about the possibility of using gas permiable lenses. They're a bit expensive and uncomfortable for the first two weeks but they won't move around like soft-lenses usually do and they offer the best correction out there.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I wish I knew who the author of that site is.

Apparentley the author of that site states that he went to Predator Pro Pool School and Tony who was one of the instructors who personally told him this eye optical illusion stuff.

Has Tony's eye surgery corrected the need for him to make alterations in his cue ball center sighting. Can he now (after surgery) see the true center of the cue ball? Ask him please and let us know, because I tend to apply a tad of right myself when I think I'm lining up at center, so I too compensate by moving my cue a tad to the left when doing those up and down the table straight stroke tests.Any commentary after talking to Tony is much appreciated. RJ

Tony's surgery simply sharpened his vision. Nothing in his hand-eye coordination was altered. If he WERE doing that before, he's doing it still. I'll ask him but I honestly believe that to be the case.

 

[northman]

I'll only say this particular sentence once because if someone ask me to try this I'd laugh in their face. Have you tried to shoot right handed?

Actually, I do practice shooting right, only when the lie dictates it, though. I think most lefties are more ambidextrous than righties, I can certainly do a lot of things with both (hammer a nail, saw a board, etc). I can usually make an easyish shot with enough authority that a lot of people don't notice I've switched. I'll try the long straight shot drill later tonight, just for laughs.

On the baseball analogy, I've always thrown and caught lefty, but batted right. (swing a golf club righty, too, not that I'm remotely decent)

If shooting right-handed compensates for my vision I will start giving it more weight during practice.


Northman

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

If shooting right-handed compensates for my vision I will start giving it more weight during practice.

Wow, switch sides? That's like throwing the baby out with the bathwater! I don't think I'd go to such extremes but evenso, you can learn a lot about your own mechanics when you do opposite-handed drills. It forces you to take notice in what you're doing.

 

[CaptainJR]

Actually, I do practice shooting right, only when the lie dictates it, though. I think most lefties are more ambidextrous than righties, I can certainly do a lot of things with both (hammer a nail, saw a board, etc). I can usually make an easyish shot with enough authority that a lot of people don't notice I've switched. I'll try the long straight shot drill later tonight, just for laughs.

On the baseball analogy, I've always thrown and caught lefty, but batted right. (swing a golf club righty, too, not that I'm remotely decent)

If shooting right-handed compensates for my vision I will start giving it more weight during practice.


Northman

I'm glad you seem to have got something out of my post. I really didn't mean to emfisize shooting right handed. Don't forget the other thing I said though.
When shooting lefty, try to get your left eye closer to the cue ball. This will probably feel strange and a little uncomfortable at first.

 

[fxskater]

I don't believe in Eye Dominance. Likely it is your stroke, your arm is probably flailing out on contact. I am kinda correcting a similar problem except my arm goes INWARDS towards my body near the end of my right handed stroke for unintentional right english. Its fixed now though.