Gabriels replacement parts
- Thread starter eyesjr
- Start date
I reached out to Loontjens in the Netherlands to replace the same pockets, the shipping was pricey so I ordered a backup set for later down the road.
Thank you. That was the first thing I tried, but all I have to show for it is an auto-response thanking me for submitting it. It’s been over a week.
Try calling them. There's a number listed.
The first time I have ever seen a Gabriel 3 rail table in person was yesterday. The folks were putting one together and it was massive. The slate looked to be 2" thick and the mechanics were using porta cranes to install the slate pieces. The outside frame for the slate looked to be made out of 2 1/2" mild steel I beams. The legs were very heavy duty to say the least. I rolled a few balls around on another Gabriel table that had just been installed. As good as advertised, maybe better.
+1 on anything they’ve ever made. They‘re all hybrid frame with wood and steel. We had a 420 pounder that used to get on the table often, and the balls on the table didn’t even wiggle when he’d get up there. I spent 2-3 years playing on the same table I’m buying, and it always rolled great. In my opinion, better than the diamonds that everyone is so ecstatic about, and about equal to the Rasson. Several pros have Gabriels at the house. Niels is among them, or was, rather.
What makes you think a Rasson is more stable than a Pro-Am? Or a Gabriel for that matter? I'm genuinely curious.
Niels is now using a Prostar table which looks like a GC copy.
For me, it is partly the steel reinforcement of the Gabriels which adds strength, as well as the additional mass (which is physically equivalent to the phrase “resistant to motion”. Stability. That’s 99 percent of a table. Heavier stuff moves less. Reinforced structures give less. The icing on the cake is that the frame supports have an engineered contact relief that ensure perimeter contact when assembled. No wiggling, yet again. Nice thick steel supports that don’t care about the humidity level or barometric pressure as wood typically does in load-bearing applications. A good design that bridges a gap in wood/steel hybrid design: The steel is engineered to where temperature change doesn’t let expansion cause issues, and the wood is supported by it in a way that environmental change doesn’t have adverse effects. DESIGN! I’m not claiming to be able to independently verify a phenomenal hypothesis here, but those factors are at least objectively true. Other tables have different designs, but I prefer this.
Where I will go out on a limb here concerns the way that the table responds to stress. You know those shots where you kick a leg up in the air as you put your back legs inner thigh against the table, and then drop down to reach an awkward position, stretched across the table? That shot serves as a good example here, and anyone here could independently verify it. It isn’t uncommon for balls to wiggle on these shots as the player (1) nudges the rail with their thigh, or (2) jerks a tad to get maximum reach. The balls don’t typically move out of position, but they wiggle in place.
For the 2-3 years that my livelihood and living were both this fine game, the gambling table in our room was a Gabriels. It simply did not let the balls wiggle from this scenario. We had one guy that would stay up all night and play as long as one foot on the floor wasn’t enforced, (he was only 5-5 or so and 150lbs soaking wet). I’d watch for the balls in the stack to wiggle, and to my surprise, they didn’t. We had (as mentioned before) a rather large gentleman who pushed himself up off of the table after every shot just about in order to spare his back. He didn’t wiggle the balls, either.
So on that note, I have to say that the Gabriels outperforms the Diamonds that I’ve played on. When I went to buy the same table that we put countless hours on between 2008 and 2012, there it was, moved to someone’s house years later, able to take abuse and not move.
The Rasson is a well-engineered table as well. The few that I’ve played on briefly when I was out of town/vacationing were SOLID. I’m not saying that any of these are “Better” than any other, because that is an entirely subjective conversation. But if one equates well-engineered structural integrity and stability with the word “better,” then feel free to say that I think the Gabriels is in fact better, so long as the context of the conversation defines “better” as I have in this sentence. The old Signature Pro Gabriels had essentially the same spec support as the 5x10 3c tables of the time. There is less weight to support. The load-bearing members are shorter, increasing capacity even more. And the cross-bracing effect of the frame itself is a feat in its own right. Gabriels did not F around, they meant business.
I’m not opposed to mentioning the cons. The engineered Dianite finish is essentially Diamond wood veneer. It’s like a thin layer that is impregnated with epoxy. It can be a challenge to repair/refinish the rails because of this. Another downside is parts availability. The pockets are leather drops (generics can be used), but the pocket trim is a precursor to the modern diamonds. These are considered wear items on these tables, and will eventually need replacing every decade or so. But in light of the many advantages listed, I find these issues to be negligible. The engineering of the slate and backer makes covering a breeze, the rounding and sizing of it that is. I can’t speak for the Rasson in that area, as I’ve never serviced one or played on one extensively.
There will inevitably be a table mechanic that says any table can be made stable, and that will be a subjective opinion. The advantages of design, stability, resistance to motion, over engineering, and precision of component fitment remain objectively true, and being a person that values such things, they highly impact my subjective opinion. If someone personally values “Having a Diamond because they are what I see on TV,” or “It returns any cue ball,” then they are welcome to have that opinion. Perhaps tournament sponsorship means a lot to some people and they purchase Diamond for that reason. Or maybe it is Diamonds purchase plan (which is great) that lures buyers. They remain at the top of the game for those reasons in conjunction with making an excellent product. But for my purpose, I will take the Gabriels any day.
I’d like to close with a non-controversial fact that will inevitably stir controversy. Why? Because I’m not just committed to myself, but also to others. Affirmation bias/confirmation bias has a high degree of impact on what people like, prefer, think, and believe. If a product is marketed well, (Coke vs Pepsi in the 70’s and 80’s), it will impact the trust and overall view of the product more so than the performance of the product itself. If we place items in a store strategically, they will outsell other products that are of higher quality. Diamond, Predator, and other brands that are at the forefront of marketing and televised usage therefore stand a higher chance of triggering false positives in the consumers tendency to buy, use, and enjoy them. That is essentially the first exam in “marketing psychology” summarized. What if we as players learned to drop the hype from our decision-making? The whole game would change. We can drop a diamond in and watch the players congregate from miles away, yet the comparable Brunswick just won’t do that. It isn’t objective facts that make that happen: it is the culmination of marketing, affirmations, support from like-minded people, and facilitation. So I do hope someone takes this non controversial closing as harsh. Why? Because everyone alive defends the Diamond to death while praising it as the best table ever. The truth is, they are a fine table. The difference in “fine“ and “best” is substantial. This substantial difference is a product of the things mentioned. I didn’t list correlations, I listed things that are shown in the realm of social science and behavioral science to be CAUSATIONS. It shouldn’t shock the world to know that someone can make a comparable product at a comparable price that outperforms a popular product in certain areas while being equal on playability and appearance. DIamond is among the most hyped products on the market, and in the same breath they are great. I mentioned that I personally value the things that Gabriels offers, and I’d like to add that I have a strong dislike for hype. No dislike for Diamond whatsoever, but I really dislike the hype around it.
Doesn't Fargo Billiards have a room full of Gabreial's? I wasn't impressed but who cares. Give Mike Page a call, maybe he can help.
The Gabriels Rafale 2.0 comes with a 60 MM slate which should get the rock in the 600# range. Frame setup link included. Not sure how the cloth liner setup works.
www.gabrielsbilliards.com
www.gabrielsbilliards.com
Playing Surface - Gabriels® Billiards
Previous Overview Next Playing Surface 11. Weather it is “Slate” or “Granite”, for Rafale 2.0, Gabriels prefers 60 mm thickness for increased vibration-dampening.
www.gabrielsbilliards.com
Frame - Gabriels® Billiards
Previous Overview Next Frame 6. Three steel 100 x 100 mm HEB – bearers. 7. Each bearer equipped with nine levelers allow for perfect alignment and level of the playing-surface.
www.gabrielsbilliards.com
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Yes, 30mm is the spec on the Signature Pro. There’s more to specs than a number, however. 30mm before polishing or after? Is it a +/- tolerance from a machining perspective, or is it a “+ only” spec?
It’s kind of like the older Centennial balls vs the aramiths, where specs made (for a certain amount of time) a more consistent ball. Of course the aramiths weren’t inferior, just different. Or like a 2x4 that measures 1.5x3.5. Some are 1/8 to 3/16 big. Some are 1-3/8 by 3-3/8. Which one handles the load? They’re all in the range, bulgur according to mechanical testing, the oversized ones take the money.
(Unless you’re dealing with rapid-cut which sometimes expands after the milling process in that scenario, no strength is gained)
Yes, and I can’t even imagine that. Each piece would be ridiculous to move lol. If one popped up around here, I’d probably bite, though.The Gabriels Rafale 2.0 comes with a 60 MM slate which should get the rock in the 600# range. Frame setup link included. Not sure how the cloth liner setup works.
Playing Surface - Gabriels® Billiards
Previous Overview Next Playing Surface 11. Weather it is “Slate” or “Granite”, for Rafale 2.0, Gabriels prefers 60 mm thickness for increased vibration-dampening.
Frame - Gabriels® Billiards
Previous Overview Next Frame 6. Three steel 100 x 100 mm HEB – bearers. 7. Each bearer equipped with nine levelers allow for perfect alignment and level of the playing-surface.
If you look at the 52 second mark of the above video, you can see just how massive the slate is. The slate is 2" thick and a few days ago I seen the Rafale 2.0 being assembled in person. The maestro table mechanic assembling the massive table, used a porta crane to move the slate pieces into position. His finished Rafale 2.0 table that was assembled and tournament play ready was a good indication of his skill level as a mechanic.
They aren't more stable. Don't know where people get this shit. If it doesn't move it doesn't move. And yes NF uses a ProStar which is another Chinese-made GC copy. Ft.Worth billiards had a Rasson in their showroom. Played ok but nothing to write home about. People act like steel frames are some kind of magic that makes a table better. Wrong.
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World-class 3c has been played on 1" or 30mm slate for YEARS. There is absolutely no need for 60mm slates. All they do is make shipping more $$ and installation a bigger pia. Let a good player play on one then the other. Think they could tell them apart? Doubt it.
