General question about DCC format

Marie's husband

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Now I understand that after each round if it was your first loss you have the opportunity to buy back in.

Also I understand that they do a complete redraw after each round and you can either be playing someone with a loss already or a player who hasn't lost a match yet.


My questions are:

After the first round, does the TD have to wait for the completion of each round before he does another draw or does the TD leave a certain number of people with open spots for the winners/buybacks from the previouse round?

Is it a computer based program that draws the names or is there a big barrel with everyones name that they actually have to redraw from?

How much of a heads up do you get as a player on the scheduling of your match?

I think the concept of this is great, I just have never seen it actually done in person and was wondering how much harder it is for a TD to use this style of double elimination.

Thank You
Marie's husband
 
And the Answers Are...

Now I understand that after each round if it was your first loss you have the opportunity to buy back in.

You are correct.

Also I understand that they do a complete redraw after each round and you can either be playing someone with a loss already or a player who hasn't lost a match yet.

You are correct again but the draw is not necessarily "after each round". Everybody who has not been eliminated (people with no losses and people with only one loss) are included in the next round draw. The redraw for the next round occurs at the posted time and may occur before the previous round completes.

My questions are:

After the first round, does the TD have to wait for the completion of each round before he does another draw or does the TD leave a certain number of people with open spots for the winners/buybacks from the previouse round?

No. The TD does not have to wait for the prior round to complete before doing the next round draw. When the next round is drawn everyone who might make it into the round is included in the draw and randomly paired with others in the field. As the previous round winds down, those who make it into the round are already paired in their new match. Those who get eliminated - either because they have lost twice or because they have lost once and elected not to buy back in - leave their pre-drawn opponent with no opponent. All these "orphaned" opponents are then randomly re-paired with one another when the buyback window is closed. You can read further about this two step draw here.

Is it a computer based program that draws the names or is there a big barrel with everyones name that they actually have to redraw from?

The computer does it using its random number generator. The TD's never interfere with the results of the computer draw to override these pairings.

How much of a heads up do you get as a player on the scheduling of your match?

I am glad you asked this question because in 2011 for the first time in the history of the tournament we are going to (try to) schedule every match. So, when you arrive at the tournament there will be a posted schedule for every round in every tournament showing when the draw will be done. Then, after the draw is done, individual matches will be scheduled in successive flights every 1.5 to 2.0 hours. So, as a player you will need to check the schedule of matches after each draw and then you know your match time. If you are one of those "orphaned" players who drew an opponent that didn't make it in, you will have to check the schedule of matches again after the buyback window is closed. The buyback window is closed after the previous round completes and pending buybacks have had time to pay and re-enter. This time is posted in the scrolling messages so you know when to look for your scheduled match time.

Now, if there are too many entries we will have to go to the same format we used in 2010 where you have scheduled draws for each round and then you have to watch your queue position on your assigned table to be sure to arrive when your match reaches the table. This format is a marked improvement over the old format when players had no idea when each round would start and had to remain in the tournament room throughout the tournament to be sure they didn't miss a match.


I think the concept of this is great, I just have never seen it actually done in person and was wondering how much harder it is for a TD to use this style of double elimination.

It definitely is a challenging format. Especially with all the overlapping tournaments, rounds and flights. But it is a unique format and in my opinion very exciting and enjoyable to play in.

Thank You
Marie's husband

Thank you for your great questions!

Ed Scott
 
Last edited:
Ed,

That's pretty cool that you created that. You saw a problem and apparently you already had some skills in programming, so you developed a solution.

How many times has this been used at the Derby?

How did it go the 1st year? or 2nd or 3rd?

Is it all running pretty smooth now, or are there still some issues that the players bring up?

Just curious how much of a success it was.. whether it took some tweaking or of it pretty much worked as intended right off the bat.

Will you be there this year? I am going to be doing some interviews for my DCC Project, and I would certainly like to get one with you:)

Greg
 
Ed Scott,

Truely impressive program and thank you for the explanation.

In one section it had a pop up that said you could sit in your hotel room and view what time your next match was, can you also view it on a web page or a cell phone?

Thanks again,
Andrew Purdy
 
Answers

Ed,

That's pretty cool that you created that. You saw a problem and apparently you already had some skills in programming, so you developed a solution.

Thank you for those words of encouragement!

How many times has this been used at the Derby?

How did it go the 1st year? or 2nd or 3rd?

2011 will be the 3rd try. 2009 was a nightmare because the new software ran into situations never imagined and failed in unpleasant ways. The operators had to hand check every draw, every match result and every buyback. The overlapping draws and "tbd's" were very confusing for the players and operators, and we had difficulty sticking to the posted schedule. Therefore, we got all the stress of format changes and immature software and got very little of the benefits of pre-scheduled draws. I think I posted my mea culpa somewhere earlier in this thread for my part in creating these headaches. Incredibly, Greg and the Diamond staff believed in the idea enough to give it another try in 2010. Compared to the year before we had a very smooth tournament last year. With one exception we were able to stick very closely to the published schedule of rounds. I was especially pleased when I overheard players planning their daily schedules knowing they could rely on the draw schedule for each round and didn't need to stand around in the tournament room 24/7 waiting for the next draw. We had one issue where a player received the random bye in the draw four times - so this year there is a new policy of one bye per tournament.

Is it all running pretty smooth now, or are there still some issues that the players bring up?

Other than the new bye policy, I have not heard any player feedback raising software issues or requesting new features. Going into next January's tournament we have implemented a major new feature with scheduled matches. This creates some risk and I am looking forward to the next two months of system testing with Diamond personnel and operators to prove it ready. We also have some new fallback and recovery capabilities that would let us return to the 2010 format if needed.


Just curious how much of a success it was.. whether it took some tweaking or of it pretty much worked as intended right off the bat.

It took a lot more than tweaking to get where we are. I hope this January we can fully realize the benefits of scheduled rounds and matches within the world's most exciting tournament format!

Will you be there this year? I am going to be doing some interviews for my DCC Project, and I would certainly like to get one with you:)

I plan to be there and would be delighted to meet you and give you a software demonstration.

Greg

Only 75 days to Derby!

Ed
 
Thanks

Ed Scott,

Truely impressive program and thank you for the explanation.

Thank you for the compliment!

In one section it had a pop up that said you could sit in your hotel room and view what time your next match was, can you also view it on a web page or a cell phone?

Yes, you get continuous live updates both on Channel 15 in your hotel room and on the internet at dcctickets.com. What we show is the current schedule of matches (refreshed on every scroll) which flips to a scrolling report of pending buybacks which flips to the overall round by round Tournament Schedule (for all three tournaments) for 20 seconds. Thanks to some excellent help from the hotel staff the hotel room scrolls are in real time where what is showing on Channel 15 is exactly what is showing downstairs in the tournament room. The internet feed may be anywhere from a few seconds to 20 minutes behind the tournament room. So if you are watching on the internet and see your match is "Next" (orange) you should be heading to your table. Additionally, the internet provides a list of all completed matches which you can download into a spreadsheet or other vehicle for your own use (e.g. AZBilliards uses this to post results in near real time). For a live demonstration go here. Questions and comments welcomed.

Thanks again,
Andrew Purdy

Hope to see you there!


Ed
 
Nice work on the scheduling last year!

This was a major peeve of mine a few years ago, but last year was the smoothest the tournament operated than any previous year by far. :thumbup:
 
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