Gold Crown 1 rehab. Lots of questions...

[CarPool]

I recently bought a disassembled Gold Crown 1, from the dates on the metal parts looks like from 1963. It has obviously been recovered many times and also moved repeatedly. The pocket angles, both vertically and horizontally are all over the board. I removed one of the cushions and it was glued well in spots and barely attached in others. From the screw holes in the base it looks like the slate was reinstalled at least a half dozen times and never in the exact same place twice. Lots of work to do.

I have been doing custom woodwork my entire adult life, and am now transitioning into something of a semi-retirement. I am repurposing some of the floor space in my shop from work space to recreational space. The table is my retirement gift to myself. I played quite a bit of pool when I was young and used to enjoy it, but then marriage, kids, life....at this point I have not picked up a pool cue in decades. I live in a rural area, a county with a population of less than 20,000 and that I know of, one 7' bar box pool table. I am never going to be a competative player, nor is anyone who is ever likely to play on this table. I say all this just to add some context to the project.

The legs and aprons I have are stained and varnished...rather poorly. I have started stripping the finish and have found remnants of what looks like a green/blue paint on the bottom of the legs. I'm thinking it might have been painted originally? I don't like the formica on the top of the rails, so have already removed that and will replace it with a solid wood veneer. The cushions are not the original Monarch, but Brunswick Superspeed, probably K55? The nose height appears to be correct, 1 7/16" from the playing surface, and after assembling three of the rails the width looks like 49 3/4". Based on this and the appearance of the rail that I removed the cushion from I am thinking that the subrails have never been altered.

My research says that replacing the Monarch cushions with K55s will close the playing surface up by 1/4" both ways, but other than that, not cause any problems. I am not sure this is going to be a concern for a player of my caliber. On the other hand, now would be the time to fix it. It seems to me that if the only problem is the size of the playing surface, then if I were to keep everything about the subrail like it is but shift the whole shape out by 1/8", my playing surface will be the correct 50 x100. Right? Or am I missing something....

 

[gazman100]

Pictures

 

[rexus31]

I recently bought a disassembled Gold Crown 1, from the dates on the metal parts looks like from 1963. It has obviously been recovered many times and also moved repeatedly. The pocket angles, both vertically and horizontally are all over the board. I removed one of the cushions and it was glued well in spots and barely attached in others. From the screw holes in the base it looks like the slate was reinstalled at least a half dozen times and never in the exact same place twice. Lots of work to do.

Welcome! The 1963 date is simply when the pocket castings were cast. There's really no way of knowing exactly what year the table was "made". These were kitted together when sold and not assembled as a unit like a car.

I have been doing custom woodwork my entire adult life, and am now transitioning into something of a semi-retirement. I am repurposing some of the floor space in my shop from work space to recreational space. The table is my retirement gift to myself. I played quite a bit of pool when I was young and used to enjoy it, but then marriage, kids, life....at this point I have not picked up a pool cue in decades. I live in a rural area, a county with a population of less than 20,000 and that I know of, one 7' bar box pool table. I am never going to be a competative player, nor is anyone who is ever likely to play on this table. I say all this just to add some context to the project.

The legs and aprons I have are stained and varnished...rather poorly. I have started stripping the finish and have found remnants of what looks like a green/blue paint on the bottom of the legs. I'm thinking it might have been painted originally? I don't like the formica on the top of the rails, so have already removed that and will replace it with a solid wood veneer. The cushions are not the original Monarch, but Brunswick Superspeed, probably K55? The nose height appears to be correct, 1 7/16" from the playing surface, and after assembling three of the rails the width looks like 49 3/4". Based on this and the appearance of the rail that I removed the cushion from I am thinking that the subrails have never been altered.

The legs, stretcher, ball storage tray and ball return box (if so equipped) were originally White. The aprons were painted Blue, Gold, Tangerine or White. Here are the color codes for Sheriwn Williams Paint. I went with Sherwin Williams Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel. Pic of my setup is also attached.

My research says that replacing the Monarch cushions with K55s will close the playing surface up by 1/4" both ways, but other than that, not cause any problems. I am not sure this is going to be a concern for a player of my caliber. On the other hand, now would be the time to fix it. It seems to me that if the only problem is the size of the playing surface, then if I were to keep everything about the subrail like it is but shift the whole shape out by 1/8", my playing surface will be the correct 50 x100. Right? Or am I missing something....

While not ideal, you can mount modern K55 (SuperSpeed) cushions to the existing subrail IF you get the cushion height correct. Not having a true 2:1 playing surface will impact playability, namely banks and kicks, especially multi-rail.

 

[CarPool]

Your table looks very nice, and thanks for the info, but mine is going to be all varnished wood. I'd never hear the end of it if I did anything different.

Now, width at 50% of length is ideal. At 49-3/4 by 98-3/4 the width is 49.874% of length. That's less than 13/100ths of one percent different. How good do you have to be before that imperceptable difference in size starts to effect your game?

But back to my question. According to numbers from a recognized expert my cushion is where it should be in terms of nose height and top corner height. My only problem is that the K55 cushion is bigger than the Monarch cushion and pushes the nose 1/8" farther out onto the table, thus reducing the overall playing size 1/4". The subrail has two facets to it, the one that the cushion glues to and the one under that. Seems to me that all I need to do is to trim 1/8" off both of those facets which will move the cushion 1/8" away from the center of the table and give me the correct playing surface size. I've looked all over for a description of the subrail modification to use K55 cushions of an old Gold Crown and for whatever reason the people that do it seem to refuse to talk about it other than to warn about what a complicated procedure it is. I really can't see why it would be any more than what I have described here. I've been wrong before, and if I am here I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me how.

And a few pictures, self explanatory, I think.

 

[Hungarian]

Your table looks very nice, and thanks for the info, but mine is going to be all varnished wood. I'd never hear the end of it if I did anything different.

Now, width at 50% of length is ideal. At 49-3/4 by 98-3/4 the width is 49.874% of length. That's less than 13/100ths of one percent different. How good do you have to be before that imperceptable difference in size starts to effect your game?

But back to my question. According to numbers from a recognized expert my cushion is where it should be in terms of nose height and top corner height. My only problem is that the K55 cushion is bigger than the Monarch cushion and pushes the nose 1/8" farther out onto the table, thus reducing the overall playing size 1/4". The subrail has two facets to it, the one that the cushion glues to and the one under that. Seems to me that all I need to do is to trim 1/8" off both of those facets which will move the cushion 1/8" away from the center of the table and give me the correct playing surface size. I've looked all over for a description of the subrail modification to use K55 cushions of an old Gold Crown and for whatever reason the people that do it seem to refuse to talk about it other than to warn about what a complicated procedure it is. I really can't see why it would be any more than what I have described here. I've been wrong before, and if I am here I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me how.

And a few pictures, self explanatory, I think.

Cool looking shop. Plenty of room. What is this hole for? Did you cut it into the rail?

 

[rexus31]

Cool looking shop. Plenty of room. What is this hole for? Did you cut it into the rail?

View attachment 834010

He's removing the rail counters and plugging the holes.

 

[rexus31]

Your table looks very nice, and thanks for the info, but mine is going to be all varnished wood. I'd never hear the end of it if I did anything different.

Now, width at 50% of length is ideal. At 49-3/4 by 98-3/4 the width is 49.874% of length. That's less than 13/100ths of one percent different. How good do you have to be before that imperceptable difference in size starts to effect your game?

But back to my question. According to numbers from a recognized expert my cushion is where it should be in terms of nose height and top corner height. My only problem is that the K55 cushion is bigger than the Monarch cushion and pushes the nose 1/8" farther out onto the table, thus reducing the overall playing size 1/4". The subrail has two facets to it, the one that the cushion glues to and the one under that. Seems to me that all I need to do is to trim 1/8" off both of those facets which will move the cushion 1/8" away from the center of the table and give me the correct playing surface size. I've looked all over for a description of the subrail modification to use K55 cushions of an old Gold Crown and for whatever reason the people that do it seem to refuse to talk about it other than to warn about what a complicated procedure it is. I really can't see why it would be any more than what I have described here. I've been wrong before, and if I am here I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me how.

And a few pictures, self explanatory, I think.

Perhaps @realkingcobra can chime in on the subrail calibrations process.

 

[CarPool]

Cool looking shop. Plenty of room. What is this hole for? Did you cut it into the rail?

View attachment 834010

Room enough to keep some work in the shop and still enough for a pool table, about 3000 sq/ft.

This is what is occupying my time currently when I'm not messing around with pool tables, or some other distraction....

 

[bradsh98]

Now, width at 50% of length is ideal. At 49-3/4 by 98-3/4 the width is 49.874% of length. That's less than 13/100ths of one percent different. How good do you have to be before that imperceptable difference in size starts to effect your game?

Even the best pros in the world wouldn't be affected by this. The difference is so minute, that any resultant effect on play could easily be passed off as being the result of any number of factors... Humidity, temperature, cloth tension, etc... But, people on this forum tend to be purists, and will often overstate the importance of this somewhat trivial detail. For what it's worth, I work on a LOT of pool tables, from a number of different manufacturers. There aren't many that measure an EXACT 2:1 ratio.

But back to my question. According to numbers from a recognized expert my cushion is where it should be in terms of nose height and top corner height. My only problem is that the K55 cushion is bigger than the Monarch cushion and pushes the nose 1/8" farther out onto the table, thus reducing the overall playing size 1/4". The subrail has two facets to it, the one that the cushion glues to and the one under that. Seems to me that all I need to do is to trim 1/8" off both of those facets which will move the cushion 1/8" away from the center of the table and give me the correct playing surface size. I've looked all over for a description of the subrail modification to use K55 cushions of an old Gold Crown and for whatever reason the people that do it seem to refuse to talk about it other than to warn about what a complicated procedure it is. I really can't see why it would be any more than what I have described here. I've been wrong before, and if I am here I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me how.

Check out this thread, for images of my tooling, specific to modifying Brunswick sub-rails

When replacing the cushions on any pool table, the most critical factor will be ensuring that the cushion is mounted at a consistent height. This is even more important than the actual height itself. That said, the easiest way to do that is by giving yourself a straight sub-rail. The factory Brunswick sub-rail height on your table would have been 1 23/32", with a nose height of 1 29/64". However, the top edge often gets belt-sanded, when the cushions are installed. That makes the top edge of the sub-rail a bit inconsistent. Now, when you install a set of cushions, using the inconsistent top surface of the sub-rail as your guide, the new cushion will be installed with matching waviness.

To avoid this, we knock the height of the sub-rail down to 1 11/16". However, doing so, will also drop the nose height of the cushion. So, we have to modify the sub-rail face angle, to accommodate the change in height. Since you are modifying the face angle, you might as well knock it back to get your 2:1 play area.

Once the face angle is cut back, you'll need to modify the lower angle. Now, here is where you could get into a bit of trouble..... Don't try to match the factory angle, as you will cut away a lot of the factory cloth relief area. You might think that this isn't a big deal, as you could always cut the cloth relief back further... Well, that is true. However, for rails that use the figure 8 nut plates, you'll have some trouble stapling your rail cloth, near those plates. Though, you could plan to upgrade the figure 8 plates with Stafast threaded inserts, and avoid the issue altogether, but there is considerable work and cost associated with that.

In your case, the bottom staple area is wasted. If it were me, I would cut off the sub-rails, and replace them with new. I think that it's actually easier than modifying existing sub-rails, particularly when customers want tight pockets.

Images below for reference:

 

[CarPool]

Thanks Geoff, that ought to get me started. I'll have more questions when I get to pockets, but that's another day.

 

[Hungarian]

Room enough to keep some work in the shop and still enough for a pool table, about 3000 sq/ft.

This is what is occupying my time currently when I'm not messing around with pool tables, or some other distraction....View attachment 834014View attachment 834015

You’re a serious craftsman. I’m confident your GC will be beautiful!! Now what were the holes for in the rails?

 

[CarPool]

@bradsh98 You wouldn't have a drawing of the pocket angles, would you?

I looked at your thread on subrail mods above and have a comment or two.

Your fixturing is good and I'm sure it works. I probably will do mine differently only because I only plan on fixing mine, will probably never see another set.

First, If you have room for it, a good table saw. Cabinet grade, stay away from the contractor saws. New is pricey, but an old Powermatic model 66 or Rockwell/Delta Unisaw can be had on the used market for considerably less.

To use with the current set up I would use a router with an adjustable angle base in place of the circular saw. A router and a stable guide will give you as good a finish as you are going to get, far superior to what you can get with a circular saw. Honestly, a better finish that even the table saw.

That's been my experience in my 40 years of making sawdust anyway. Hope it helps.

 

[CarPool]

You’re a serious craftsman. I’m confident your GC will be beautiful!! Now what were the holes for in the rails?

Thanks, and sorry, I'm not really ignoring you....Rexus answered your question before I saw it. Those holes were for score counters that I did not get all the parts for, and don't like the look of anyway.

 

[Hungarian]

Thanks, and sorry, I'm not really ignoring you....Rexus answered your question before I saw it. Those holes were for score counters that I did not get all the parts for, and don't like the look of anyway.

Ohhh. It the photo the holes look much bigger than score counters. So you just made a filler block to delete score counters. Nice!!

 

[bradsh98]

@bradsh98 You wouldn't have a drawing of the pocket angles, would you?

I looked at your thread on subrail mods above and have a comment or two.

Your fixturing is good and I'm sure it works. I probably will do mine differently only because I only plan on fixing mine, will probably never see another set.

First, If you have room for it, a good table saw. Cabinet grade, stay away from the contractor saws. New is pricey, but an old Powermatic model 66 or Rockwell/Delta Unisaw can be had on the used market for considerably less.

To use with the current set up I would use a router with an adjustable angle base in place of the circular saw. A router and a stable guide will give you as good a finish as you are going to get, far superior to what you can get with a circular saw. Honestly, a better finish that even the table saw.

That's been my experience in my 40 years of making sawdust anyway. Hope it helps.

Thanks for the tips!

I actually have a Grizzly 5HP cabinet table saw, and a shop full of Grizzly woodworking equipment that I've never even plugged in. I've got a 24" planer with a Shelix helical cutterhead, a 24" drum sander, a 14" vertical bandsaw, an 8" jointer, and a large cyclone dust collector.

I do frequently use my "mobile" shop tools, such as a Kreg router table, Dewalt contractor saw, Grizzly drill press, and my miter saws, along with my Bosch dust extractor. Once the work on my shop is completed, I hope to have all of the stationary equipment in place, and fully functional, which will make life much easier.

I love the idea of using an adjustable angle base router. The only reason that I haven't invested in upgrading my sub-rail modification tooling, is because of the low volume of work that I'm seeing. When I posted that tooling in 2021, I said that I was doing about 10 sets of Brunswick rails per year. Funny enough, that number has steadily decreased. In fact, I think that I did 2-3 sets last year, and I've only done 1 set this year, so far.

 

[CarPool]

Thanks for the tips!

I actually have a Grizzly 5HP cabinet table saw, and a shop full of Grizzly woodworking equipment that I've never even plugged in. I've got a 24" planer with a Shelix helical cutterhead, a 24" drum sander, a 14" vertical bandsaw, an 8" jointer, and a large cyclone dust collector.

I do frequently use my "mobile" shop tools, such as a Kreg router table, Dewalt contractor saw, Grizzly drill press, and my miter saws, along with my Bosch dust extractor. Once the work on my shop is completed, I hope to have all of the stationary equipment in place, and fully functional, which will make life much easier.

I love the idea of using an adjustable angle base router. The only reason that I haven't invested in upgrading my sub-rail modification tooling, is because of the low volume of work that I'm seeing. When I posted that tooling in 2021, I said that I was doing about 10 sets of Brunswick rails per year. Funny enough, that number has steadily decreased. In fact, I think that I did 2-3 sets last year, and I've only done 1 set this year, so far.

Wow, you get all that stuff set up, it wont take too long before you wonder how you ever got along without it!