On Friday night I run a 8 ball tournament and Saturday night a 9 ball tournament. The players are primarily from the local APA leagues. In order to give lower level players a better chance of winning against 7 level APA players I handicap the tournament as follows: 8 ball-7 level players cannot win by making the 8 on the break. 8 is spotted and they continue shooting. Race is to their respected handicaps. 9 ball-7 level players cannot win by making 9 on the break, it is spotted and they continue shooting. 9 ball must be the last ball made (7 level only) and they must call the pocket. Anytime during play if 9 ball is made prior by a legal hit (by 7 levels only) they continue shooting. Otherwise Texas Express rules apply. I pay all players $5 whenever either an 8 ball or 9 ball is made on the break in the respective tournament. What I am wanting to accomplish is give everyone as even an opportunity to win as possible and get the maximum number of players to enter the tournaments. I add $100 for 16 players and $200 for 32 players with $5 entry and payout thru 4th place. Generally 25-32 players for 8 ball and 16-22 for 9 ball. How could I improve/change the handicaps? Your input will be appreciated. Thanks.
Handicaps for local tournaments?
- Thread starter Doug
- Start date
25 - 32 players sounds good for a weekly tournament, at least in this area. IMO, Friday’s normally draw more players out than Saturday’s in general, maybe it’s the same there. Or, perhaps, people like 8 ball better. The $5 payment for an 8 or 9 ball break is a good idea. Another way to reward players for a break shot is to have one big break pot, where all the players in the tournament get one chance to break in the 8 or 9 ball. You could start off with a $100 break pot and have it roll over ever week until someone hits.
The handicap system for APA 9 ball is 1 thru 9 and in APA 8 ball 2 thru 7. You probably already knew this, just clarifying. I have some thoughts on handicap systems, but not too many good ones. Anyway, something we do around here that’s worked, so far, is divide the tournament players into two separate brackets, like running two tourneys and having the winners from each play one another, using a handicap of some kind. For instance, in an 8 ball tourney play all the 6’s and 7’s in the top half of the chart and the 5’s and under in the lower half of the chart. Without letting either of the groups crisscross on the chart in a double elimination tourney. And maybe have a 5 to 3 race at the end to determine the overall winner.
Rick
The handicap system for APA 9 ball is 1 thru 9 and in APA 8 ball 2 thru 7. You probably already knew this, just clarifying. I have some thoughts on handicap systems, but not too many good ones. Anyway, something we do around here that’s worked, so far, is divide the tournament players into two separate brackets, like running two tourneys and having the winners from each play one another, using a handicap of some kind. For instance, in an 8 ball tourney play all the 6’s and 7’s in the top half of the chart and the 5’s and under in the lower half of the chart. Without letting either of the groups crisscross on the chart in a double elimination tourney. And maybe have a 5 to 3 race at the end to determine the overall winner.
Rick
Wish I could get there - sounds like my kind of tournament. I hope they all enjoy you adding the 100 and 200. That is a heck of a lot more than any place around here puts in. Most of them add nothing.
We have the $5 tournaments too and kick in a buck for the 8 or 9 on the break. That gives everyone a chance to win on the break. The 8-ball pot pays half, and half is always carried over to next week so that pot sometimes builds up pretty good. Alternating breaks at one place, loser breaks at another. And evryone gets a chance to play before the 8/9 pot is paid off. In 8 ball, it's one tie all tie, in 9, it's split. In 8-ball once you reach the money you can't win the 8-ball pot.
One guy adds a little to the pot, $10 to $30, depending how he feels, but the place that adds nothing gets more players. Go figure. But they have 9 foot tables while the other has Valley 8 foot bar boxes.
No three foul rule.
The guy that adds usually pays 6 places. 5/6 either gets a beer/soda or $5 depending on how many people enter.
Handicapping the 9-ball players by not allowing them to cheese the 9 sounds good. I tried to get that and the 8 from a guy and he wouldn't do it. I'll have to tell the guy here about your idea and see if he will go for it.
He also fudges the charts (call it seeding) by playing the weaker players against each other and then carrying the losers straight across the chart so that they get to play another weaker player.
Not a lot of money involved so nobody really cares.
Jake
We have the $5 tournaments too and kick in a buck for the 8 or 9 on the break. That gives everyone a chance to win on the break. The 8-ball pot pays half, and half is always carried over to next week so that pot sometimes builds up pretty good. Alternating breaks at one place, loser breaks at another. And evryone gets a chance to play before the 8/9 pot is paid off. In 8 ball, it's one tie all tie, in 9, it's split. In 8-ball once you reach the money you can't win the 8-ball pot.
One guy adds a little to the pot, $10 to $30, depending how he feels, but the place that adds nothing gets more players. Go figure. But they have 9 foot tables while the other has Valley 8 foot bar boxes.
No three foul rule.
The guy that adds usually pays 6 places. 5/6 either gets a beer/soda or $5 depending on how many people enter.
Handicapping the 9-ball players by not allowing them to cheese the 9 sounds good. I tried to get that and the 8 from a guy and he wouldn't do it. I'll have to tell the guy here about your idea and see if he will go for it.
He also fudges the charts (call it seeding) by playing the weaker players against each other and then carrying the losers straight across the chart so that they get to play another weaker player.
Not a lot of money involved so nobody really cares.
Jake
pooltablemech
Banned
I myself hate the handicaps for tournaments. When I was learning to play I put my 6 bucks in against some players I might beat one or twice a year. But eventually I got to where I could beat them. With a handicap it just puts the weak player right up there without having to get any better, and makes the better player lose the edge he got by LEARNING to play. I realize that this thinking isn't good for the pool room because they want more players than more better players. But if you are looking for a good system, talk to starcadebilliards.com. They have a system that is used at 3 others rooms in this area. They have used it for years and altered it over the years, to the point that it appears to be as good a handicap system as there is for a weekly 9 ball tourny. Good luck with it.................I just hate the fact that a handicap makes the bad players stay bad....because they don't need to get any better! Just my opinion!
Thanks for the replies. I, too, dislike handicap tournaments but primarily for the reason that regardless of how fair you try to make them there will be complaints. Just people being people. I don't own this room I just run the tournaments to promote pool which I personally enjoy playing. The more people playing pool hopefully will interest business people to invest in opening more rooms.
I have been running pool tourneys af all sizes and $$$ amounts for about 30 years, also in other countries . Handicap tourneys usually work quite well if there is not too much money involved. There are always players who will abuse the system but since we cannot control them we can try to minimize the abuse.
My version of 8 ball handicaps is... the better players play "scratch"...the players of the next lower level get to "not use" one of their balls...the next lower level gets to "not use" two of their group. All of the balls remain on the table but the lower level players can have their choice of which ball(s) they choose to leave on the table.
The remaining balls, obviously become an obstruction for the better players! This system seems to work quite well for me.
I have a small handbook I give out to any one who wishes to run better tourneys. It includes the highlights of the different USA league rules and info on how other locations run their tourneys.
My version of 8 ball handicaps is... the better players play "scratch"...the players of the next lower level get to "not use" one of their balls...the next lower level gets to "not use" two of their group. All of the balls remain on the table but the lower level players can have their choice of which ball(s) they choose to leave on the table.
The remaining balls, obviously become an obstruction for the better players! This system seems to work quite well for me.
I have a small handbook I give out to any one who wishes to run better tourneys. It includes the highlights of the different USA league rules and info on how other locations run their tourneys.